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Evert team picked up a win, except Dunedin. The FCL Jays won two. Pitching was the bright spot of the night. Casey Lawrence, Hayden Juenger, Nick Fraze, Ricky Tiedemann all had good appearances. The exception was Dahian Santos who had a bump on his way to a promotion. Some lesser ranked hitters had good nights. John Aiello, Spencer Horwitz, Miguel Hiraldo, Yhoangel Aponte and Tyler Keenan had multi hit games.

Worcester 1 Buffalo 4

New Hampshire 4 Binghamton 0

Vancouver 4 Tri-City 1 - game one

Vancouver 0 Tri-City 1 - game two, suspended in third inning

Lakeland 7 Dunedin 1

FCL Tigers 2 FCL Blue Jays 3 - game one

FCL Blue Jays 7 FCL Tigers 3 - game two, 5.5 innings

This is what I noted from yesterday's games.

The Bisons might be short of starting pitchers right now but Casey Lawrence, Maximo Castillo and Thomas Hatch have a good competition going in the next guy to be called up race. Lawrence threw seven innings with just an unearned run on his record. He struck out seven and allowed five hits.

Nate Lukes got the scoring started with a two run home run in the first. He picked up a third RBI the hard way, by getting hit by a pitch with the bases loaded. Tanner Morris and Stevie Berman also had two hits. Jordan Groshans was 0-4 and is hitting .148 in June. He has cooled off after a hot start. He is not striking out too much, just the BABIP gods catching up to him.

Hayden Juenger and Nick Fraze piggy-backed through seven shutout innings. Juenger went four with five K's, Fraze three with four K's. John Aiello drove in the first three runs with a single in the fifth, a single in the seventh and a double in the ninth. He scored the fourth run on a balk.

Spencer Horwitz was 2-3 with two walks. Horwitz is hitting .391 in June wih ten walks and six K's. That bumped him up to the third spot in the lineup, Orlevis dropped to four. He is hitting .154 in June.

Ricky Tiedemann started game one for the C's. As usual he shut down the opposition, five shutout innings, 84 pitches. He did allow three hits, all in the same inning. The bases were loaded with one out but no problem, he struck out the next two hitters. In total he struck out nine.

Davis Schneider homered in the first inning to make it 1-0. He walked and scored in the third inning, followed by a Miguel Hiraldo two run home run. Hiraldo was 2-3 as was the "hew guy" Tyler Keenan.

Naswell Paulino started game two and in the third inning Tri-City loaded the bases with no one out. A single scored a run and then the rains came. The C's did not have a hit through three innings. As the rains came Leo Jimenez left the game with what was reported as a hand injury.

In Dunedin Dahian Santos had a rough start. In the first inning he hit the first batter, got an out, walked the third hitter, walked the fourth and hit the fifth. Two singles made it 4-0 for the Tigers. In the third inning a lead off double was followed by a walk and two more runs scored in the inning. That was it for Santos, three innings, six runs. Sean Wymer continued his rehab by throwing two shutout innings.

The Jays had to face Jackson Jobe, the third overall pick last season. He held the Jays to one run over five innings. The Jays had just four hits in the game.

In the FCL Yhoangel Aponte, who is on some top 30 lists, was 2-2 with a walk and hit his first home run in the first game. In game two the Jays scored seven with four hits. 13 walks helped out a bit. Irv Carter started game two. He cruised through two innings. A lead off walk in the third came around to score. Three singles in the fourth led to two more runs. It was his first official start so we will wait to see how he does next time.

Three Stars

Third Star - Miguel Hiraldo

Second Star - Casey Lawrence

First Star - John Aiello


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hypobole - Saturday, June 11 2022 @ 09:08 AM EDT (#415308) #
Had a discussion on catcher's defence in the other thread. A few of us watch milb games. Maybe all now have the centre field camera (Vegas didn't when Lawrie was there). So pitchers and catchers are the easiest to scout. A trained eye can see a lot.

Surprisingly :) Blake Swihart was mentioned. Yup, easy to find a Sox fan site with a glowing report on his defence. But other sites had him more a Zack Collins. One thing popped up there. Rumours that pitchers hated throwing to him.

Brought to mind Danny a few years back. IIRC Longo at FG didn't much like his D. Later softened his stance after admitting another FG guy thought he was excessively harsh. Pretty sure that's when he said "pitchers like throwing to him".

So some things we can spot, some things a really trained eye can spot, but some things only someone with sources inside a clubhouse would ever know.

scottt - Saturday, June 11 2022 @ 09:21 AM EDT (#415309) #
Not sure minor leagues pitchers would be vocal about their catchers.
Maybe early round draft picks.
It's totally different once a guys is established in the bigs.

hypobole - Saturday, June 11 2022 @ 09:28 AM EDT (#415311) #
Pretty sure minor league pitchers would be vocal to their coaches, probably not slagging one catcher, but for sure telling the coach he really likes throwing to another catcher.
Gerry - Saturday, June 11 2022 @ 09:35 AM EDT (#415312) #
I would expect that in reviewing the game, a starting pitcher would discuss with his pitching coach things like pitch selection, whether the pitcher felt the catcher cost him a strike and other similar issues and decisions that go into a start. The pitching coach would have a good idea of what the pitchers think of each catcher.
85bluejay - Saturday, June 11 2022 @ 09:36 AM EDT (#415313) #
Don't know where he ranks but Ricky Tiedemann would be the Jays prospect I'd be most reluctant to trade.
uglyone - Saturday, June 11 2022 @ 09:40 AM EDT (#415314) #
There were consistent positive reports about Danny's defense even before and while all the fangraphs boys were dismissing him as a DH based on literally nothing at all.

John Northey - Saturday, June 11 2022 @ 09:57 AM EDT (#415315) #
I suspect the #1 thing for catchers defense as an early indicator is if pitchers like to throw to a guy. If they don't like to then odds are he has issues with either game calling or receiving. I-Rod had tons of those issues early on as his killer arm kept him behind the plate - 50% thrown out iirc - but he was thought to call for fastballs more when runners were on to help push his numbers up, he'd get up too quickly in an effort to throw guys out thus costing his pitchers strikes, etc. and his teams ERA's showed that - constantly near the bottom.  Meanwhile 'poor defense' Mike Piazza was known to be a hard worker behind the plate who pitchers liked to throw to even if he couldn't throw out Kirk on the bases.  But this was the era of Rickey Henderson so base stealing was still a big deal but his teams always were top 2 or 3 in ERA year in - year out.  Sadly back then we didn't have framing numbers or really much of anything for catchers beyond how often they threw out runners.

That is a reminder that what the media tells us isn't always factual. Especially in sports. Each writer has their own biases so to know the truth you need stats and/or knowledge of what are the big tells. If you hear pitchers like or don't like to throw to a guy that is either a big plus or a big warning. As we get robo-umps I expect the pitchers comfort throwing to a guy to skyrocket as pitch framing falls off completely.  Ability to call a game, to give a pitcher a good target, to catch when a pitcher is having troubles even if the score doesn't show it yet are going to be more and more important (and I have no idea how you'd measure those things but hopefully someone figures that out).
Nigel - Saturday, June 11 2022 @ 10:21 AM EDT (#415317) #
Such an interesting topic. Quite a few years ago I remember listening to an interview before a Cís game with the manager or coach (I donít remember who, although funnily enough, it might have been John Schneider). He said during the interview that the pitchers liked throwing to x catcher. And what do you know? The interviewer asked what he meant by that. The answer he gave wasnít typical gobble and it was only vaguely related to defence. He said two things (Iím paraphrasing) : a) pitchers like throwing to Cís who are calling pitches the P wants to throw (having to shake off the C leads to frustration, is distracting and can lead to questioning yourself); and b) itís a workplace accountability issue - if a pitch isnít called from the bench then Ps and Cs are out there making discretionary decisions that sometimes get hit 500 ft and lose games; sometimes that happens due to good hitting, sometimes a poorly executed pitch; sometimes a poor pitch selection (whether chosen by P or C); he said that, unsurprisingly, Ps arenít fond of working with Cs who arenít interested in sharing responsibility (in the right circumstances) when bad things happen or who talk after about a poorly executed pitch. He said Ps take note of that right away.

Iíve heard others talk about the first issue. Iíd never thought about the second but, of course, it makes sense. Weíve all had that co worker and it isnít fun.
bpoz - Saturday, June 11 2022 @ 10:44 AM EDT (#415318) #
We have great equipment in the Dunedin facility that helps develop prospects. Also all the development camps. And also the kids are growing.

Max Castillo just turned 23 a month ago and has changed the way he pitches. He is getting more Ks now. I think he may have been an extreme ground ball pitcher. He throws 70+ pitches per outing. I wonder if his newly developed velo is still there for his last 10-20 pitches? 4 more outings should get his IP to about 75 for the year. Maybe he earns his way to the Jays soon. I don't know what his role would be.
Mike Green - Saturday, June 11 2022 @ 10:52 AM EDT (#415319) #
A famous Yogi quote: "all pitchers are liars or crybabies".  Maybe it was a different time then.

In checking out that one, I came across another.  Carmen Berra to Yogi:  You are from St. Louis, we live in New Jersey and you played ball in New York.  If you go before I do, where would you like to be buried. 
Yogi: Surprise me.  That's not one I had seen before, but I had seen and heard (many times) a related one about going to other people's funerals to make sure that they will come to yours....
hypobole - Saturday, June 11 2022 @ 11:04 AM EDT (#415321) #
Great stuff, Nigel. And yes it makes perfect sense. Thanks
greenfrog - Saturday, June 11 2022 @ 11:05 AM EDT (#415322) #
Is Addison Barger now considered a prospect (even a marginal one)? Heís 22.5 and playing in high-A. He has a 141 wRC+ and .378 wOBA but his K rate is on the high side (28.1%).
Mike Green - Saturday, June 11 2022 @ 02:40 PM EDT (#415337) #
Question:  who was the last Blue Jay pitcher who dominated high A ball at age 19?
Roy Halladay was in high A ball at age 19 and threw 164 innings, allowing 158 hits, 75 runs while walking 46 and striking out 109.  It was very good, but not dominant.  Chris Carpenter didn't make A ball until age 20 and wasn't dominant then.  Steve Karsay made A+ ball at age 20 and was quite good but not dominant. 

I can't think of anyone else, but there may be somebody.  The club has tilted towards collegiate pitching especially in the last two decades.  It may be that Ricky Tiedemann is charting new ground for the Blue Jays. 
uglyone - Saturday, June 11 2022 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#415339) #
Well, Simeon Woods-Richardson did it at 18.
Mike Green - Saturday, June 11 2022 @ 03:11 PM EDT (#415341) #
Completely forgot about SWR. He wasn't dominant the way that Tiedemann is, but he was a year younger. Good catch, UO.
GabrielSyme - Saturday, June 11 2022 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#415343) #
Syndergaard dominated full-season A at 19... given the compression of the leagues because of minor league contraction, A+ is probably a little less advanced than it once was.
Mike Green - Saturday, June 11 2022 @ 09:08 PM EDT (#415357) #
Adrian Pinto is still in centerfield.  He has tripled and walked tonight and stolen his 17th base.  He's now slashing .258/.395/.401 with a 20/25 W/K.  He was caught stealing in his first four attempts.  Since May 3, he is 17-3 stealing bases.  He's been very hot in June,  with 5 XBH, 6 walks and 2 strikeouts in 34 plate trips, leading to a nice .286/.444/.607.

Pinto is 19 years old, but in 2-3 years, he might be ready to take over centerfield from Springer. 
John Northey - Sunday, June 12 2022 @ 12:20 AM EDT (#415359) #
Pat Hentgen was pretty good at full season A at 18: 2.35 ERA 2.9 BB/9 vs 6.3 K/9.  But not as good as a 22 year old Doug Linton - 1.55 ERA 1.8 BB/9 vs 11.4 K/9 in 122 IP.  Also in that rotation was a 20 year old Vince Horsman. That same team has Junior Felix, Mark Whiten, Francisco Cabrera (had a big series winning hit for Atlanta in the playoffs once), Randy Knorr (a good backup catcher), and Luis Sojo (good utility infielder for years).  Dang the Jays in 1987 had a pretty good A ball team I'd say.  Others also made the majors but those were the key guys imo.  Felix & Sojo were what got Devon White, Whiten was part of a deal to get major help for 1991 (Tom Candiotti), Hentgen of course was key to the 1993 team (19 wins) and won a Cy Young, Linton was lost on waivers and came back at the end of his career for a nice final 7 ML games.

In short season A they had Derek Bell, rookie ball Mike Timlin, AA Pat Borders, AAA Sil Campusano, Rob Ducey, Glenallen Hill, Manuel Lee, Nelson Liriano, Greg Myers, Mike Sharperson, Todd Stottlemyre, David Wells, Duane Ward, and others.  Counting only guys who were still prospects of course.  The Jays were developing a LOT back then which helps explain the 2 WS wins 5 years later.  Few were part of those teams, but they helped in trades or at least to push others.  Sharperson was dealt for Juan Guzman, Wells was part of the '92 team, Ward of course was key in both WS wins, Bell was traded for another OF who was traded for Tony Fernandez in 1993.  Borders was WS MVP in 1992. Stottlemyre was famous for his World Series baserunning where he cut his chin but kept playing (didn't do well but the Jays won the game in the end).  Ah the memories.  Wonder which guys in the minors today will be remembered in 30+ years?
uglyone - Tuesday, June 14 2022 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#415453) #
love Pinto's line so far but he's in the "so small i need to see him to believe him" category. still, i would bet on the numbers ahead of the measurements.
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