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A tough, late-night loss to the Padres. The bullpen gave up 2 runs in the 8th that led to the 3-2 loss.

* Fordin Notes - Frasor gets it done, Frankie does his Rickey impression, and 'Nails' File regains his velocity.

* Elliot on Baseball - Bob brings up a lot of questionable moves the Jays have made recently that most Bauxites would probably agree with.

* Eighth wonder, or dated blunder?. SkyDome turns 15, aka middle-aged.

* File's a bonus.

* Today's Game - The rubber match of the series - Batista goes against Brian Lawrence.
Sunday Roundup - 6/20 | 30 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
_IainS - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 09:51 AM EDT (#56616) #
I wish people would stop knocking the Dome. I know all the newer stadiums are nice in their old fashioned quirky styles, but frankly who would want to be in one in Toronto in April? Now admittely the Dome could use some adjustments.. field turf would be nice (grass nicer, but that ain't gonna happen) and angling the seats to face homeplate would be fabulous. The best thing that could happen to the Dome would be a sale to Rogers.
_Moffatt - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 11:02 AM EDT (#56617) #
Was I the only one who turned off the TV after Speier gave up the "double"? I swear it was like a bad movie that you knew how was going to end. Delgado and Wellsy better get back soon because the Jays need all the firepower they can get.

Any word on why Phelps is being benched so much?
_Rob - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 11:05 AM EDT (#56618) #
Any word on why Phelps is being benched so much?

Tosca hates him.
Well, prove me wrong. Please prove me wrong; there has to be a reason.
_Ryan Day - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 11:08 AM EDT (#56619) #
Well, there was this bit in yesterday's Globe:

That has nothing to do with Josh Phelps's future with the team Phelps has exhausted the patience of the organization with his batting and is not in its long-term plans...

I don't know if that's fact or supposition, but it matches up with "stuck behind Dave Berg & Howie Clark" pretty well.
_Kristian - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 11:19 AM EDT (#56620) #
Well Phelps would have more trade value playing everyday at first in Syracuse than sitting behind Berg and Clark. The handling of Josh Phelps over the last 2 years has been terrible and I would prefer to see a struggling Phelps in the lineup over Howie Clark or Dave Berg any time of the week. Phelps must have some value to other teams considering his age and power potential.
_Keith Talent - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 11:24 AM EDT (#56621) #
http://journals.jevon.org/users/keith_talent
That was a pretty crappy baseball spread in the Star this morning. An enormous picture of Fenway filling the sole baseball page, with SkyDome underneath with the pedestrian thought: gee, do you think we'll be playing in SkyDome in 60 years? They ran a much better article with the same theme (middle-aged SkyDome) not three weeks ago. What's this hot air? Lay off the SkyDome, it's not so bad. I think it's pretty cool. Just some maintanance, a new Jumbotron, new turf, more fans (read: a winning ball club), that's all it needs.
_Marc - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 11:35 AM EDT (#56622) #
Phelps has no options left so he cannot be sent to the minors without passing through waivers, which would never happen.
_Rob - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 11:37 AM EDT (#56623) #
http://www.battersbox.ca/archives/00001081.shtml
The handling of Josh Phelps over the last 2 years has been terrible

I agree completely, as does someone else:

When the Jays went to [1] and [2] for their interleague series, they lost the DH, so no Phelps, and then when they got back, it was as though Carlos Tosca just forgot about him...giving [3] and [4] starts at first over Phelps? Ridiculous.

This is from the BB Wilner Interview (COMN), where Mike gives his two cents on the 2003 Jays. Seem familiar?

2003, 2004:
1: Cinci, San Fran
2: St. Louis, San Diego
3: Tom Wilson, Howie Clark
4: Dave Berg, Dave Berg.

Predict the number of 1B starts for Josh Phelps from now until the All-Star Break (or until Delgado returns, whichever happens first). I'm guessing 8.
_Kristian - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 11:37 AM EDT (#56624) #
Thanks Mark, I should have checked on that. Well they might as well play him everyday in the majors to hopefully increase his trade value. His value surely couldnt get any lower now.
_Moffatt - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 12:05 PM EDT (#56625) #
That has nothing to do with Josh Phelps's future with the team Phelps has exhausted the patience of the organization with his batting and is not in its long-term plans...

Thanks for the info.. must have missed that yesterday.

I really hope they're trying to reconstruct his swing and that's why he isn't playing. Phelps has turned into an extreme groundball hitter, which is strange for someone with his power potential.
_Jobu - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 02:15 PM EDT (#56626) #
enthusiasm was for the seventh strikeout -- meaning a free slice for tout le monde at Pizza Pizza.

Blue Jays closer Jason Frasor, pitching in a one-run game, got Doug DeVore to pop up for the final out, giving the Jays the victory. The outcome was booed.


Finally something written by a Toronto sports writer about the Blue Jays that I actually agree with.

I detest this promotion. For all the clapping I do on "non-pizza involved" strikeout situations, I staunchly sit on my hands when the crowd goes nuts for a free slice of mediocre pizza.

They tune out the whole game and then go nuts when the prospect of free pizza or moving a pre-recorded animated delivery truck. It makes me bitter towards most of the fans in attendance.

Imagine how the players feel when you're giving it your all trying to give the team a win and thats met with "yeah... thats nice." and then the prospect of pizza brings them to their feet. The pinacle of this being the previously mentioned game I was at where they got a big out, but no K, and the crowd actually booed. Thats great "fans", valuing cheap pizza over team success. I was ashamed to be a Toronto sports fan.

I'm done ranting now. Who's the ad-wizard who decided not to televise the last game from Petco?
_Ryan Lind - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 02:28 PM EDT (#56627) #
Has anyone done a count on how many times Toronto columnists have referred to the Jays as the "last-place Blue Jays?" It's getting tiring, really.
_Tyler - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 04:24 PM EDT (#56628) #
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gameLog?gameId=240611114
Unfortunately, I have to call bullshit on both Jobu and Bob Elliott. The Jays only won one game against the D-Backs in that series, and it was a 15-4 blowout on a Saturday. Saturday isn't Pizza Pizza day, and Jason Frasor had blown the save the night before, so it's highly unlikely that he pitched. According to ESPN, he struck out Doug Devore too (COMN), so I have absolutely no idea what the hell Elliott and, by extension, Jobu are talking about. I'll agree that I've heard some booing on popouts when the team is close to the Pizza Pizza slice, but I'd say it's pretty good natured booing, and if any of the players have a problem with it, they need to mature a little. Personally I like the promotion, if only because it tends to get the crowd juiced up.

I'm all for fair criticism of the Jays and their fans, and I think TO fans deserve a lot of crap, but the papers don't actually need to make stuff up.
_Tyler - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#56629) #
I'm an idiot...wrong game. Sorry all. Nevertheless, I think that the point still stands about it not being such a bad thing.
_Jobu - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 04:28 PM EDT (#56630) #
Okay, so it was whatever day he did pitch. I go to alot of games and they jumble up in my head sometimes.

The papers aren't making anything up, the Jays dont need lame promotions like that. Its not drawing people to the game, and whoever is there cares more for lame pizza then the jays win. I think its stupid the crowd gets "juiced up" for only two situations in the game: The possibility of a free slice of bad pizza, and a rigged delievery truck race.

Toronto is blessed enough to have an MLB team in a serviceable ball park, the fans should be cheering like that on every 2 strike count because their team is trying to win, not because they can have pizza. And it was not good natured booing, it was "aww... where's my pizza?" booing.
_Tyler - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 05:48 PM EDT (#56631) #
I know why I'm confused. Elliott says that the Jays won the game-the game where Devore flew out, they lost. Anyway, not the point. I can't agree with you about the booing though-I don't know where you usually sit, but I'm generally in the 100 level, and I boo, and I assure you it's good natured. Of course I also boo the ump when there is pizza on the line. Good, clean fun.

Your complaint, in my mind, seems to be with the fans, and not the promotion. I'd agree with you, to be honest, but I think that marketing wise, you work with what you have. For whatever reason, Jays fans seem more willing to make noise if the possibility of some sort of reward exists. You won't find me defending the Toronto sports fan, but as far as the Jays go, you take what you can get.
Named For Hank - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 05:54 PM EDT (#56632) #
and angling the seats to face homeplate would be fabulous.

Am I missing something? At Fenway off of first base I had to turn my head and body to see home. At the Dome I have never, ever had to do this. Maybe I'm sitting in the wrong seats, but I've sat virtually everywhere in the Dome.

Didn't that ESPN.com page 2 ballpark review call the sightlines at the Dome some of the best in the major leagues?

I'm mixed on the pizza thing. I like that it gets the crowd fired up at two strikes, but I hate that the message boards flash PIZZA when there have been 6 Ks and there are two strikes on a batter, getting the crowd to chant "pizza".

I recall the popout in question, and while there were a smattering of boos, they were not representative of the crowd as a whole, just a few loud jerks in the stands.
Named For Hank - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 05:57 PM EDT (#56633) #
By the way, I am not calling you a jerk, Tyler. I've heard people who are genuinely upset that they are not getting pizza.

On the flipside, there was a game last year where we got massacred by the As (15 runs or something awful like that), and yet the crowd went crazy for the seventh strikeout.
_Jobu - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 06:05 PM EDT (#56634) #
As usual NFH says it perfectly. Obviously I am not complaining that they do cheer, but if they did it all the time it would be alot better. And for the "occaisional" fan who does legitimatly boo for not getting pizza, he really boils my potato.

And yeah, I think the sightlines are great at the Dome, one of the few great things going for it. Whats up with that?

NFH: Are you ever going to share details of Boston trip? Inquiring minds want to know.
_Rob - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 06:10 PM EDT (#56635) #
Dome open, great stadium.
Dome closed, bad stadium.

Any questions?
_Rob - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 06:17 PM EDT (#56636) #
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/ballparks/skydome.html
NFH: COMN for SkyDome review...bad news:

The seats down the left field line face the hotel, which would have been great if Angelina Jolie was staying there, but I had a sore back by the third inning twisting to see home plate.
Named For Hank - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 06:20 PM EDT (#56637) #
My only disagreement with Rob is that in Toronto if we didn't have the option of closed Dome we'd have

great stadium
rainout
snowout

Jobu, I'll post about Fenway some time this week. Still organizing my thoughts. Short version is that it's a great park except for the hotdogs and having to twist to see the plate.

Most complaints I hear about SkyDome seem to be things that could be fixed with paint and panelling.
Named For Hank - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 06:22 PM EDT (#56638) #
I don't know what seats they're talking about. Maybe the cheapies in the left field corner?
_Tyler - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 06:30 PM EDT (#56639) #
Believe it or not, I was at that A's game last year too. Again, I had no problem with the fans going nuts for that-it's not like it was a ball game at that point. Sturtze stepping off the mound and pumping his fist? That I had a problem with.

I'll tell you what really bothers me, since we're on the topic. I was at the May 24 Monday game against Anaheim. Thrilling win for the Jays. The crowd was doing the wave in the 9th inning. Absolutely inexplicable. The difference I see between that and the pizza thing is that the pizza thing at least requires a certain degree of engagement with the game-if you're doing the wave, you're not focused on the game.
_Rob - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 06:37 PM EDT (#56640) #
True enough, Aaron. I never went to a game at the Ex (it closed shortly after I learned how to talk) but it must have sucked in April.
_Fawaz K - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 07:12 PM EDT (#56641) #
The wave kills me; if the Baseball Gods are paying attention, one of these days the guy who decides to start a wave will get clobbered by a foul ball. As for the pizza, I love that they do it, but I sometimes wish everyone would recognize what's going on. If Doc's at 85 pitches in the 6th, I'd rather see first-pitch ground outs that Ks, but there are people cheering for strikeouts, sending dangerous be-careful-about-what-you-wish-for vibes down onto the field.
_Keith Talent - Sunday, June 20 2004 @ 11:51 PM EDT (#56642) #
Closed SkyDome is still the best dome I've seen. It easily beats all others I've seen. The reason: it's so well-lit inside SkyDome.
Craig B - Monday, June 21 2004 @ 09:25 AM EDT (#56643) #
KT's got a good point there. The lighting at the Dome is really excellent.
Named For Hank - Monday, June 21 2004 @ 10:20 AM EDT (#56644) #
I think the only thing wrong with the Dome is that it looks like it is from 1989, which is not old enough to be retro and not new enough to be current. I don't even think it's a problem, but apparently some people do.

Looking at the Padres' stadium on TV on the weekend, it was really nice, but because it isn't faux-retro like a lot of new parks it will be facing the same problem fifteen years from now.
_Jobu - Monday, June 21 2004 @ 02:46 PM EDT (#56645) #
Yeah, Petco will really lose all its charm and its fans in a few years when the "newness" wears off and the team is in a rebuilding phase. (See: Skydome, circa 1994-present)
Sunday Roundup - 6/20 | 30 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.