Dude, Moffatt, this song makes you look like a lady.

...Sorry, too early to be witty.

I suggest filling the house with the rich, satisfying aroma of tobacco.

Or we can paint three large rooms in the house, getting slowly killed by the fumes!

Paint smell...tobacco smell...Craig, don't be surprised if I show up at your house looking for fresh air.

Dude, Moffatt, this song makes you look like a lady.

No, it's the heavy mascara.

Or the pink hair.

And where's my elephant - er, cuttlefish?

Blair's article is a good read. It's certainly reassuring to hear this from Godfrey:
This idea that we're going to have a $32-million payroll is impossible," Godfrey said. "It won't be done. We have no indication that our payroll will be reduced."

Got rid of the pink hair. I quite miss it.

I'm going to have a big prize awarding thread soon.. you'll get what's coming to you. :)

you'll get what's coming to you

Does The Cabal know you're threatening me like this? Don't make me beat you 12-0 in Week 20 in The Leftovers.

Wasn't there a movie called "Dude, Where's My Cuttlefish?"

Does The Cabal know you're threatening me like this? Don't make me beat you 12-0 in Week 20 in The Leftovers.

That'd make us, what... even?

Do you think the attendance will go up in the second half? With the Yankees coming to town, hopefully a better team, and no hockey for the whole half?

That'd make us, what... even?

Oh....don't get me started on that Charles Johnson stolen base situation again. Or that first round from hell, passing on Bonds to take a Dusty-ized Prior.

Wow, I'm really confrontational today. I just yelled at a muffin.

Did the muffin deserve it?

Cherish is the word I use to describe, all the feelings that Ted Lilly has inside ...

Does this bonus lyric suggest that Lily's "Association" with the All-Star Game was a once-in-a-career thing?

It has been a lot time between games. I'm even starting to feel fondly towards Berg.

And where's my elephant - er, cuttlefish?

To tide you over, here are two llamas and a goose:

The Ice has thawed.

The llama is a quadruped which lives in big rivers like the Amazon. It has two ears, a heart, a forehead, and a beak for eating honey. But it is provided with fins for swimming.

Llamas are larger than frogs.

Llamas are dangerous, so if you see one where people are swimming, you shout: "Look out, there are llamas!"

Toronto Blue Jays: (-13 per cent)

Attendance down 13% from last year. Well, that's to be expected. Canada Day weekend there were no home games. Victoria long weekend there was one home game: Monday NIGHT; and I'm telling you, after a long weekend, you're really tempted to have a quiet night at home before you have to face work again. And let's look at the product; no offence to these guys, but these names don't draw: Menechino, Gomez, Berg, Howie Clark, Zaun... it's an expansion team without the novelty. The only novelty is being behind Tampa Bay.

I think the Blue Jays can recover and have a good second-half at the gate, I hope they do. But it's going to take a month like last May to do it. And fans need to know they're going to see a major league lineup. As well, the Yankees haven't come to town yet, and that's always a big spike in attendance.

You know, 19,000 per game might seem low with the mighty attendance numbers of other teams this year. But over the course of recent MLB history it's not so bad; particularly for a fourth place team and no new stadium.

The llama on the left looks like Ralph, but I cant swear to it.

Attendance down 13% from last year. Well, that's to be expected. Canada Day weekend there were no home games. Victoria long weekend there was one home game: Monday NIGHT

Yeah this disgusted me. As a Canadian baseball fan, to have *zero* homes games on the only two long weekends between May 1st and July 31st (I dont consider Monday night to be part of a long weekend), is like a slap in the face. The fact that they scheduled them to play the Expos and then put the game in Puerto Rico, on a Canadian holiday is like spitting in my face and then slapping it a few times for good measure.

If the MLB cant be bothered to do a simple thing like gives the Jays (the soon to be only Canadian team in the league) a home game on a national holiday, then it's no wonder people are turned off. Why should we care if they dont.

"Godfrey knows that as one of the biggest beneficiaries of revenue sharing, the Blue Jays have quietly come under increasing scrutiny from other owners. Having Rogers pocket the Delgado savings at a time when he is receiving revenue-sharing money and additional currency adjustments wouldn't fly

From the Blair article. I would never have thought of this. Valid concern by the other owners. Doesn't affect the Delgado situation directly, as the money could be spent on other players, but does lend some credence to the notion that salary will remain at $50M.

http://www.thewolfshack.com
As a Canadian baseball fan, to have *zero* homes games on the only two long weekends between May 1st and July 31st (I dont consider Monday night to be part of a long weekend), is like a slap in the face.

Well, they were home on the Monday of Memorial Day weekend, so we got that.

;)

"Godfrey knows that as one of the biggest beneficiaries of revenue sharing, the Blue Jays have quietly come under increasing scrutiny from other owners",

Would this have something to do with the currency exchange? Because a quick check of team salaries (USAToday.com) shows that there are 9 other teams with salaries lower than the Jays. So they're in the bottom third, but only just.

Did the muffin deserve it?

Ohhhh yeah. I thought it was a carrot muffin, but then out of nowhere popped some sort of dried fruit. And this wasn't your normal, California-style-with-sunglasses dried fruit. It was some other arrogant fruit which thought it could hide inside this delicious carrot exterior.

Yeah, those paint fumes (see above) are getting to me. Only two and a half rooms to go!

I think you're right, Keith. The schedule has done the Jays no favours in terms of driving attendance numbers, and April-May is always going to be a tough sell in this town if the Leafs are in the playoffs. That the weather has been uneven is probably no help, either.

Still, even though April seems like ancient history now, there was a bit of a buzz starting to build around this team. That buzz didn't make it past the sweep against the Tigers. That's how short a window of opportunity baseball has in this market at this point in time.

What concerns me more about those numbers is the fact that I think they're inflated. They're probably inflated for every team, I know, but the Jays have given away a high number of tickets, have discounted some of those seats sharply ($2 Tuesdays being one example), and a lot of the tickets sold have not been used. The Jays get paid whether the tickets are used or not, obviously, but it does not augur well for future sales and the Jays need to create a sense that the Dome is the place to be.

On the bright side, the fans that are there appear to be much more lively, and that's a big improvement. What the Jays need desperately is a patina of cool, which was lost right around the time the Raptors came to town in 1995 (whether the Raptors stole it is another debate, since their arrival coincided with the Jays going into the tank). I think a lot of Toronto sees the Jays as a bit of a shabby outfit, and if there's one thing Toronto won't stand, it's something with the appearance of being downmarket (for example, see the Toronto Argos, St. Michael's Majors, Toronto Roadrunners, Toronto Blizzard, the Toronto entry in the "A" League). That the Dome is looking very much the worse for wear is a part of this problem, but one the Jays can't do much about until they own the place.

Putting a consistently winning product on the field will help a great deal (last year's squad ended with a good record, but I think a lot of people tuned out early in the season when they struggled, tuned back in briefly around the all-start break, and then tuned back out when they struggled again). You can't completely iron out the peaks and valleys of a 162-game season, but it's a demanding marketplace, and after years of false promises from the Ash regime, there isn't a lot of goodwill out there towards the team. JP has been much more realistic in his proclamations, but the media has been a real thorn in his side. Truth be told, I think the media in this city is a disgrace, but to blame them entirely is to put your head in the sand about the extent of the Jays' problems right now.

I'd like to think the best thing the Jays could do is make the Dome an enjoyable place for a family, or a couple, or a group of friends to guy and watch a baseball game. To wit: stop it with the stupid between-innings promotions, turn the music down by about, oh, five decibels or so, so people might actually be able to converse with each other, replace the turf with something a little easier on the eyes, like the stuff the Argos are playing on now (I know this is in the works, but it can't happen soon enough, for aesthetic and athletic purposes). Of all the above, turning the music down has to be the priority. I love the game of baseball, but even I can't take it down at the yard anymore. I've stopped attending virtually all other sporting events for this reason, and the Jays are really putting me to the test. I'd love to hear a defense, though, from anyone who thinks the music is a positive thing (and I don't mean the music that's played at the appropriate time, to rev up a crowd, but my quarrel is really with the stuff that they play between innings, that is completely disconnected with the game, and inhibits people from really enjoying, getting into, and appreciating the game).

Wow, that was quite the epic post. I didn't realize I had that much to say on the subject.

Sorry for the diatribe, everyone.

Sorry for the diatribe, everyone.

Don't be sorry for the diatribe. I really enjoyed it.

I'd really wish they'd get rid of that stupid Staples truck race. The one where it's the 100 level (expensive seats) vs. the 200 level vs. the 500 level (cheap seats). The whole thing is a giant metaphor for class conflict and is a call-to-arms for communists everywhere. Plus it's annoying. :)

a call-to-arms for communists everywhere

Scares the hell out of economists, huh? Well we're coming, and we're bringing our red truck...

I'm totally with you on the music. I'm not averse to loud music generally--I average going to see one live, loud band a week--but it's genuinely oppressive at the ballpark. What bugs me just as much are the piped in hand-claps and cheers that, in my experience, usually drown out or fuck up any actual spontaneous cheers that are happening. It's a drag.

And generally, on the point of attendence, I'd simply say that the team playing as poorly as it is is all the explanation I need. I attended every home game last year, but this year have made it to about half. There was a long stretch there without Vernon, without Carlos, and without Hudson -- the absence of the three people I enjoy watching the most was enough to keep me away far more often than would have been the case otherwise.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/2004dish.html
Here is a piece from BA on the Canadian Olympic team. Apparently the team is set to be announced soon.

With the Canadian Olympic baseball team announcement expected today, does anybody care to speculate on the roster? My guess (with a few holes remaining):

C Pete LaForest TB-AAA
1B Justin Morneau MIN-AAA
2B Stubby Clapp TOR-AAA
SS Danny Klassen DET-AAA
3B Todd Betts NYY-AAA
OF Simon Pond TOR-AAA
OF Jeff Guiel TOR-AAA
OF Aaron Guiel KC-AAA

LHP Jeff Francis COL-AA
RHP Ryan Dempster CHC-AAA
RHP Jason Dickson KC-AAA
LHP Eric Cyr ANA-AAA
LHP Adam Loewen BAL-A

Bench:
OF Jeremy Ware MTL-AA
OF Ryan Radmanovich Independent-Atlantic
SS Kevin Nicholson SD-AA
1B Matt Logan CIN-A
2B Hyung Cho SEA-A

Bullpen:
RHP Chris Mears DET-AAA
RHP Aaron Myette CIN-AAA
RHP Mike Johnson MTL-AAA
LHP Jordan Zimmerman Independent-Atlantic

http://66.241.210.162/files/2004_olympic_roster_both.pdf
Apparently the team is set to be announced soon.

The team has been announced, COMN.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/allstar04/news/story?id=1839986
Of all the weird promotional crap that goes on during the all-star break, I really didn't think that Ali's appearance would draw so much ire. First the civil rights groups in Houston and now Bob Feller. COMN

It's nice to see the heavy Jay presence in the Canadian team, from Clapp, Guiel, Ogiltree, Pond, Ducey, Spoljaric and Andy Stewart to Ernie Whitt, Denis Boucher and Scott Shannon.

Well, the team gets Morneau, which means no Justin for Twins fans for another several weeks. He's obviously the best player on the Canadian team, but I wonder how he compares to the stars of the Cuban, Japanese and even Greek teams.

What did the civil rights group say?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bouchde01.shtml
Look at this chump who sponsors Denis Boucher's page at Baseball Reference.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=1838745
COMN - They thought Ali should have refused to show up in order to highlight racial inequality in Houston.

Four Seamer is dead on about the noise-levels at the Dome. It's simply not a pleasant place to be because of that. And it's pretty much why I gave up great seats and dropped a Season's Subscription, after 15 years. But the marketing types at the Dome don't seem to get it.

Nine of the 14 position players on the Canadian team bat left-handed exclusively. There's two switch hitters and just three right-handed hitters. Hopefully the team won't face any tough lefties.

Moffatt, Giver of Divine Cuttlefish, I've got to hand in a report on the greenback-loonie exchange rate in a few hours. Is there anything I could include to make me look like Mr. Cleverpants and coax multiple cuttlefish from my instructor?

I agree about the noise. Even when I'm sitting at home watching the games, when I hear "The Addams Family" between pitches I feel like I'm coming down off heroin. So many times, when Mrs. Keith and I are at the game, the noise interrupts conversations. Or you want to say something, and that dreadful clapping starts and you think, "ah, never mind."

Noise and music during games are fine, when used selectively. But when Menechino's up in the bottom of the second, one out, after taking ball one in a one-and-two count, I don't need to hear "The Addams Family" between pitches.

The noise is incessant.
As well, does it have to be U2 before the 9th inning every time? Can't they mix it up? I'd be happy to DJ for them.

And you know all these complaints, it's just one guy up there pushing buttons. We need to figure out who this guy is and give him an intelligent and politely written petition. Hell, with the connections Da Box has I'm sure you could get Wilner and Scott Carson to sign as well.

He probably doesn't even know it bugs so many people.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/2004dish.html
Today's Daily Dish at BA (COMN) has Brandon League getting a standing ovation at the Eastern league all star game as the scoreboard showed him hitting 102mph (though scouts only clocked it at 99) in a seven pitch shutout inning.

BA has it slightly wrong. "FisherCatsFan" was watching on cable and let me know that it was 2/3 of an inning, and the fan reaction was due to his short outing.

Here is an excerpt from a newspaper report...

"Perhaps the most spirited reaction from the fans came in the bottom of the eighth when Northern Manager Stump Merrill (Trenton/Yankees) pulled pitcher Brandon League (New Hampshire/Blue Jays) after just two batters. League showed off his major league fastball and hit 100 mph on one pitch to Keppinger, according to a stadium scoreboard.

The "oos" elicited by League's heat turned to "boos," however, when Merrill replaced him just before he was to face Young."

Fishercats fan said League's teammates poured water on his hands when he got to the dugout.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks the music is overbearing at the Dome. My view is that a trip to the ballpark should be a celebration of the game, but it's become less special over the years not because the team isn't as good (the difference between a .400 team and .600 team to a fan who goes to five games a year is just one less win), but because of the sensory overload.

When I was a kid, going to the Ex with my dad, I could and did pepper him with questions about the game, the players, life in general. I learned to love the game that way, because of the pace of the game and the way it gives you an opportunity to reflect upon it. Watching the game at home, we sometimes still have those chats. But at the Dome, you can't, and the kids I see around me aren't either. A lot of them are having fun, dancing and trying to get on the Jumbotron, but they're not cultivating any real appreciation for the game, and I worry that their support for the team will wither once they're too old to carry on like that.

By the way, can anyone pinpoint when this obnoxious trend reached critical mass? I don't remember the early years at the Dome as being all that bad, but certainly by 1995, 1996 the decibel levels were on their way up. I know that it evolved over time to the stage it's at now, but I think it's worth noting that there isn't much of a fan base for the Jays amongst people who are in their late teens/early 20s (Bauxites excluded). That would be the first generation of fans with no memory of the Ex, and who have only been treated to the "SkyDome Experience" (I'm 27, which means I was 8 when the Jays first won the AL East, and was 6 in 1983, which was the first year I really understood, or can remember understanding what the Jays were all about). In any Those fans would have the World Series years in their frame of reference, but for one reason or another have not become hooked on the game. Some people say that's because baseball failed to market itself to youth, but I think that's absolutely wrong: I think baseball did go that route, badly underestimating young people along the way.

The noise [at SkyDome] is incessant

Agreed, as much as anyone can agree with anything. I can't even talk to the person sitting next to me between innings, because the commercials on the Jumbotron are too loud or because of the stupid delivery truck race. Not to mention the asinine Mr. Sub Hat Shuffle. Come on, if 15000 fans are yelling "2!" at you, it's probably Hat #2.

I move for Aaron (Named for Hank) Reynolds to take over all in-game music, sounds, cheers, and assorted whatnot for every home game. Anyone willing to second this motion?

And please, put the blue-hairs in their own section. Nothing discourages loud, boisterous noise like four old people wearing white belts and polyester pants sitting down in front of you.

Oh, and from the Star article, re: Ernie Whitt for the manager's job: He'd get consideration despite the major drawbacks of having never worn an Oakland uniform and having platooned during his playing days with Buck Martinez, already fired as manager by Ricciardi.

Uhhh...yeah. So Mr. Blue Jay never played for Oakland and platooned with a good catcher who later turned into a bad manager and these are major drawbacks? Come on, Mr. Woolsey, you can make up better ludicrous reasons than that.

Time for my third post in a row...:)

Is there no minor league thread for today?

I move for Aaron (Named for Hank) Reynolds to take over all in-game music, sounds, cheers, and assorted whatnot for every home game

If you want to be able to talk to the person next to you between innings or ever hear again for that matter, I think you've nominated the wrong guy. But I'm willing to second the nomination.

Remember when the SkyDome was packed every night and the NBC Game of the Week broadcasters, Bob Costas, etc. kept going on about how quiet it was in the Dome. It seems the Blue Jays took that criticism to heart and have been doing there best to make it LOUDER, not pausing to wonder if louder is necessarily better. If you have 50,000 bums in the seat every night, why tinker? So now, we have this funny correlation of the Dome getting louder while the crowds get thinner.

Nobody is going to say they stopped going to the Dome because of the noise. That's because sensory overload works at a subconscious level. You don't know what it was, but you just feel you didn't have as relaxing, or enjoyable a time as you could have had. And that subconscious drive to buy tickets weakens.

Quiet does not equal boring. Loud does not equal exciting. Yes: when people are excited they get loud. But just because they're quiet doesn't mean they're feeling the opposite.

I was wondering who runs those promotions. Is it Sportsco (they own the Skydome right?), or is it the Jays themselves? If it is the Jays, I am sure they make a significant amount of money from those promotions, and this is probably necessary to the well-being of the club. After going to multiple games, the obscene lack of difficulty does become quite annoying. Do some trivia or something like that.

Nontheless, as per the noise I only find it really loud when the dome is closed. Otherwise, it is still a bit loud, but not overwhelming. To a certain extent, though they do overkill, the clapping sounds do encourage some fan participation. However, whoever has been doing those clapping sounds this year either has no idea what they are doing, or they inebriated while doing so. Instead of gradually increasing the speed for the slow clap, the clap button seems to be pushed at random so that the crowd cannot follow along, due to the lack of rhythm.

As per Ernie Whitt having no association with Oakland, and platooning with buck, I think that was a joke. I sure had a laugh.

The noise [at SkyDome] is incessant

Totally Agreed

I've been on this bandwagon for a while..
the artificial noises (a LOT of which are commercials) are so loud that any naturally generated noises like cheering get overwhelmed..

after a few innings of getting drowned out, most people stop yelling.

one time I was there and the music broke... and the fans cheered for batters as they came up to the plate.. unfortunately a couple innings later the music was "fixed" so we shut up and listened...

The slow start was without a doubt an unfortunate waste of a great opportunity. As someone typically skeptical of "buzz" for any event or product, I have to admit that the preseason vibe around the team was unmistakable. Injuries, of course, are not accepted widely as a valid "excuse." But, come on, how often does popular opinion determine validity?

There is definately a connection between the Skydome's attendance woes and aesthetic "watchability". It doesn't require a psychology
degree to see that the excessive and unnecessary noise stems from attempts to compensate for obvious inadequacies. Honestly, IMO the Dome was never the "World's greatest entertainment" anything. If anyone believes that it once was, I doubt that they believe that it is now. The turf problem really goes without saying and I hope that it's replaced by next season. But sound-wise, just simplifying the music, sound effects, and promotions would dramatically improve the Skydome experience. Actually, the promotions are probably an unavoidable issue. However, cutting down unnecessary noise would very likely make any annoying marketing "games" tolerable.

The Dome can really be an adequate place to enjoy a ball game. Right next to the lake, great location within the city, ok sight lines with a young, talented, up and coming tenant. While far from impossible, unless intelligent changes are made, a renewed box office resurgence is very unlikely.

Oh, and from the Star article, re: Ernie Whitt for the manager's job: He'd get consideration despite the major drawbacks of having never worn an Oakland uniform and having platooned during his playing days with Buck Martinez, already fired as manager by Ricciardi.

Uhhh...yeah. So Mr. Blue Jay never played for Oakland and platooned with a good catcher who later turned into a bad manager and these are major drawbacks? Come on, Mr. Woolsey, you can make up better ludicrous reasons than that.

Roughly on par with saying that Ernie would never be a considered for manager because the Jays had a 5 Letter Manager in Bobby Cox and he left us to go to a contender just when we needed him most...

By the way, can anyone pinpoint when this obnoxious trend reached critical mass? I don't remember the early years at the Dome as being all that bad, but certainly by 1995, 1996 the decibel levels were on their way up.

To be honest I blame the Raptors (with apologies to any Raptors fans). Or more specifically the NBA and the culture of hype that goes along with it.

I went to my first NBA seven years ago and I was blown away by the spectacle of it all. Barely a single second went by that there was not something going on out on the court be it the cheer squad, trampoline dunking, tiny dog obstacle races, t-shirt guns, some guy throwing frisbees, fans trying to sink baskets from halfcourt, and sometimes they'd even have the actual game going on. It was like they thought you might get up and leave if there wasnt something happening on the court every single second you were there. It also seemed to be a sacred rule that each of these events must be accompanied by some sort of loud, driving, and overly obnoxious "music".

Anyway I guess that's how they market the game to the younger generation, which is sad because any appreciation of the game itself is lost in exchange for appreciation of the "spectacle" and excitement of it all. It's like the Superbowl, people dont watch because they like football, they watch for the commercials and the halftime show. No doubt some of this style has rubbed off on the Jays organization.

Lots of quotes today
Delgado received top-10 honours in response to the question: "Who is the best teammate you ever had?" ..."

"... he was named only four times by the 475 players who participated (... 750 eligible), tying him for fifth most mentions along with, among others, former Jay and long-time Oriole Mike Bordick. The leader was Jim Thome of the Phillies with 14 votes. (Dave Burba, Curtis Leskanic and Mike Matheny each got five votes — and, while they may be very good guys, no-one's expecting them in Cooperstown either)."

Is it true that 457 players named their best teammate and the winner got 14 votes? 2-4 got 5, and 5th on got 4???

that is the flatest, and least statistically useful survey of 475 people that I have ever heard of... bascially other than Jim Thome, no one really liked ANYONE..

that is the flatest, and least statistically useful survey of 475 people that I have ever heard of... bascially other than Jim Thome, no one really liked ANYONE..

LOL thanks for pointing that out, made me laugh.

and the kids I see around me aren't either. A lot of them are having fun, dancing and trying to get on the Jumbotron

In fact they are so concerned about getting on the Jumbotron, that they spend the playing part of the game planning their activities for the next break... the moment the inning ends they start screaming or dancing and waving signs, and the game is just an inconvenience...

I think the whole notion of getting on the Jumbotron is COUNTER productive to the education of the baseball fan...

Too bad when there was 4 Million people at the Dome they weren't taught something about the game instead of just marketing..

I heard it costs $50,000 to rent the dome for a day. If we sold tickets at $3/ticket we could sit there for 3 hours and just pan teh jumbotron camera around and guarantee that everyone would get on the jumbotron... I think we could sell out and make $100G's...

About noise

I have taken my 8 and 9 year old sons to 13 games so far this season, the last one being at the end of June.

My boys are baseball fans - they both play ball (one in rep, the other in house league) and watch games with me on TV. Even they are unhappy with all the non-stop useless noise at the Dome. The truck race, hat shuffle and Klondike promotions were exciting to them for 2 or 3 games; after that they were just boring. The younger one has even asked to go home early at a couple of the games we went to, because he had a headache from the noise.

They (and I) appreciate fan cheering at great plays or booing at lousy calls but are tired of the phony noise that very much inhibits talking during the game. Like one of the other posters above, I remember talking with my dad or my friends or even with other people sitting nearby at games at the old Exhibition Stadium, usually about the play, but sometimes just in general. You really can't do that anymore.

I remember reading somewhere once that the beauty of the slower pace of baseball is that it gives you time to savour the play just made and to anticipate the one to come. At the Dome these days, you can still do that, but only to yourself - forget about communicating your thoughts to anyone else.

We still plan to go to games in the second half (stinky as the team has been, we are still fans). My older boy's rep schedule prevented us from going during the last homestand. Interestingly, though, neither of my sons has asked when our next Jays game is.

If the noise turns off 8 and 9 year olds (not known for being the quietest demographic) and spoils some of the traditional pleasure of the game, it's time to turn it down.

LOL thanks for pointing that out, made me laugh.

Loveshack,
The pleasure is mine.. I'm smirking now too...
Ciao

Is anyone from the Jays reading this blog anymore???....

I wish someone would hear our voice on this noise issue....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1840371
Here is a weird story (COMN). The Mariners are going to apparently cut John Olerud lose and send him to the minors. Its hard to feel sorry for him when he is getting $7 million a year and blocked a trade, but he seems like a decent guy who has done a good job for a long time. Got to figure there might be a better way than this to deal with him.

Interesting article in the print edition of National Post today about Gregg Zaun - don't know if it's available electronically.

You they ran that "race of the towers" stunt each night the Mariners were in town?? On the last night someone reached out with a big plastic bat and "Randal Simon-ed" the Seatle Needle

The Mariners are going to apparently cut John Olerud lose and send him to the minors.

Wow, that is shocking. So the Mariners have nearly $10 million in the minors(7.7 for Olerud, 1/2 of 3 million or so for the SS), good work. Excellent trade position too. That must make everyone on the team feel warm and fuzzy inside and improve moral.

If Olerud goes on waivers, the assumption is another team would pick him up (San Fran?) and relieve the Mariners of that $7.7M committment.

...Clearly the Mariners are going into rebuilding mode -- not that it should come as a surprise given a large portion of their roster (7 players) is in the 35+ category and three of those are 41 (Borders, Moyer, Martinez).

I don't see the Giants picking up that kind of tab. This could be interesting because of Olerud's reported reluctance to relocate (beautiful sentence!). Would he be interested in playing first in Boston?

I read somewhere that Olerud would consider a move to a team that would allow him to bring his kids onto the field before games(apparently the Mariners have a policy that forbids this practice). Don't know if Boston fits that bill, but it would be interesting to find out.

I am thinking interest would be thin in Olerud, which makes DFAing him a gamble. If only one or two teams show any interest, then he likely will slip through waivers, making it possible for someone - anyone - to sign him for the minimum. But would he go, or would he just retire?

I read somewhere that Olerud would consider a move to a team that would allow him to bring his kids onto the field before games

I'm sorry, I read this as a sign of a player who is not very freaking serious about baseball.

Ball seems to be in his court considering those two jewl infested things he picked up in a Jays' uniform. IMO it comes down to whether or not he gets an offer from a team he *really* wants to play for. That said, leaving the game being DFAed probably isn't how Olerud wants to be remembered so that could play into his decision as well.

I'm sorry, I read this as a sign of a player who is not very freaking serious about baseball.

Then you and I read it exactly the same way.

I am thinking interest would be thin in Olerud, which makes DFAing him a gamble. If only one or two teams show any interest, then he likely will slip through waivers, making it possible for someone - anyone - to sign him for the minimum. But would he go, or would he just retire?

Let's see if I can master this italics off concept - there!

Given that he's never played in the minors before, I can't imagine he'd be in a big hurry to start now.

Sorry for the italics everyone - I previewed it, and it was italics-free, but I was given some complimentary italics regardless.

I think I'll stop playing with the italics altogether, just to be on the safe side.

http://me.woot.net
I'm sorry, I read this as a sign of a player who is not very freaking serious about baseball.

I read it as someone who is serious about his family, which is a subtle but real difference.

Italics off.

Joe, you had a faster and better fix. At AVIS, we try harder.

Maybe Olerud just loves his family?
And I read earlier today that his daughter has some sort of special needs. I'm not sure what they are though.

She was born with some medical condition, I forget the exact type though.

Sorry for the least useful clarification, ever.

I tried to look it up on the internet, but I didn't really get anyhting other than a choromosal defect. It has (still does?) prevent her from walking and she requires hospitalisation from time to time. Olerud is really close to his family, especially given his daugther's condition, and has apparently talked of retiring if he can't be with his family frequently. I think he'll probably play out the string this year and then maybe call it a career.

Without getting into the family values debate, I gotta say ... at this point, who would want Olerud? Seriously, nice player, still a good glove man, decent stick though not the guy he was in Toronto or New York ... at almost eight million a year?

Aren't there, like, two dozen guys a team could get in the minor leagues who could produce 85 percent of Olerud for less than five percent of the price?

Miguel Batista might be traded for either Justin Morneu and Matt Moses or Mark Teixeira. Texas needs pitching and feels they can part with a Scott Boras client in Tex if they can get Batista. Terry Ryan is humming and hawing on the deal as Morneau will be a stud once given the chance to play. Remember you heard it hear first as I think this is one of the best sites that fans run anywhere in baseball!

Oh yeah, anyone who thinks that Tosca will be back next year to manager the Blue Jays dont buy a lottery ticket because he is as good as gone and in fact had he not been named to to the All Star game he might have been gone already. It might not be his fault Coach be he isnt JP's choice to take the Jays to the next level.

I imagine somebody would be willing to take him on. After all, if he's already turned down a trade it means somebody was listening to Bavasi. I'm sure that if he's dealt the Mariners would have to eat some of that salary so that may not be a stumbling block. If he is let go, can't he then sign for any amount anyway? Could someone clarify this for me, please?

This may not be exact...

When a player is waived he has to go through waivers. If any team claims the player they have to pick up the salary (like with Tony Batista several years ago).

If a player isn't claimed the team that releases him has to pay the entire contract. The player then becomes a free agent. If the player then signs with a new team the old team doesn't have to pay what the new team is paying (which is almost always the minimum).

The Jays of course had a delightful (for a while) experience along these lines with Doyle Alexander, whom Steinbrenner dumped in a fit of rage or pique or frustration. Doyle posted back-to-back 17 win seasons in Toronto for the baseball minimum wage, as far as the Jays were concerned; the Yankees were still on the hook for the rest of his expensive and long-term deal.

Not that I believe the Teixiera or Morneau report, but in either case Delgado is *definitely* walking if it goes through (and I'd be quite happy about it - unless trading El Artista turns future FAs away form T-O)

Wow. Bob Elliott is posting on the box under the handle "Insider Info". Welcome aboard, Mr. Elliott!

I believe "Insider Info" is one of the infamous Marty York sources

I don't know where insider info is getting his information but it is not true according to the article by Charley Watters at prosports.com.

The Twins, according to the author, are interested in Shawn Estes not Batista for the 5th starting position as he makes only $600,00 which is within the Twins pay scale. In fact the author states that there never was any interest in Batista. By the way, the same is true for the Mets and the Yanks.

In fact JP has said on numerous occasions that the big 3 pitchers will not be traded. This is the best trio of pitchers that we have had in a long time. Gord Ash dream your heart out.

Bad news for team Canada. Mientkiewicz has just been put on the DL and the Twins are expected to call up Morneau.

If a player isn't claimed the team that releases him has to pay the entire contract. The player then becomes a free agent. If the player then signs with a new team the old team doesn't have to pay what the new team is paying (which is almost always the minimum).

Right.
this is how the Yankees ended up paying Doyle Alexander to beat them in 1985

http://www.naturesguard.com
That fan 590 is reporting that J.P. is just about to Trade Delgado

Believe what you want to believe. Tosca is a goner anyone who thinks otherwise really isnt very knowledgeable about baseball. If Terry Ryan wont part with Morneau then the deal is dead. Thats what it will take, JP has said he will listen to offers on anyone but it would take alot to get Batista. That happens to be Morneau or Teixeira.I love this site but you guys need to be more open to information provided by outsiders, Frank was proof of that.

Hey, if you're right, I'm willing to give you props, just like I did for Frank.

But you have to realize that *anyone* can post under a pseudonym and say whatever they want, and all kinds of people have done so in the past and been incredibly wrong. What are your credentials? Who do you know? What are your sources?

Also, you haven't really given us any info on Batista. Just that stuff *might* happen. Pretty convenient. If there is a trade, you were right. If there isn't a trade, well, you just said it *might* happen, not that it will, so you're still right. Don't go out on too far of a limb.

http://me.woot.net
MrPurple, above, may be referring to this sportsnet.ca article which says that Ricciardi is going to ask Carlos whether he wants to waive his no-trade clause.

Mike your exactly right I agree if nothing happens I look stupid. Im just saying that Batista could move and talks have happened but only a few players would be involved. Personally I dont think it will happen because I dont think Ryan will move Morneau and Tom Hicks wont have the guts to move Teixeira. As far as Tosca gone that is common knowledge everywhere in baseball. But I can tell you guys without a shadow of a doubt that JP would move Batista for either Morneau or Teixeira which he should.

But I can tell you guys without a shadow of a doubt that JP would move Batista for either Morneau or Teixeira which he should.

I think that's a pretty safe bet. Heck, I said so publicly a few days ago on the Box RE: Morneau. There's no way Terry Ryan is going to give up Morneau for three months of a rehabbing Carlos Delgado.

As for Tosca, pretty much everybody and their brother is saying it on here lately. It'd be kind of refershing for someone to say that he will be back next year. Hasn't happened a lot lately.

There's no way Terry Ryan is going to give up Morneau for three months of a rehabbing Carlos Delgado...

or for a two years and three months of Batista. Forgot to add that part. Sorry. :)

I don't think J.P. is looking to move Batista, either, for all the reasons discussed in previous threads.

TWO years and three months of Batista, not that it makes a difference.

Scratch that, I can't read.

If the Jays could trade Batista for either Morneau or Teixiera it would probably be done by now. The Twins just don't seem to make sense as the last two years of Batista's contract are over $4 million each. Texas might make sense but I hardly believe they are considering trading Teixeira. Maybe Adrian Gonzalez but the Jays wouldn't do that deal.

But I can tell you guys without a shadow of a doubt that JP would move Batista for either Morneau or Teixeira which he should.

This isn't so much Insider Info as it is Obvious Info.

No, I edited it Fawaz, coz I screwed up and didn't want three posts in a row. You have a good eye. :)

By the way, Prior went less than 2 innings tonight. Does anyone know what happened?

I just happened to be watching that, Christian. Prior ran over to cover first, and came up limping a little. It could be that he tweaked that Achilles tendon, or he may have just turned an ankle, but they were understandably cautious with him.

By the way, Prior went less than 2 innings tonight. Does anyone know what happened?

He's on my fantasy team, therefore making him subject to freak injuries. (And I could have picked Bonds...)

Cristian and Coach-I was watching the Cubs broadcast here in Chicago and unfortunately for Prior it's NOT lower leg, the way it appeared as he did seem to be limping. The word is a sore elbow. Not good news at all for the Cubs.

Sorry, Cristian. My fingers get ahead of my brain sometimes.

you guys need to be more open to information provided by outsiders

About 20 of us talked directly to J.P. on Saturday. Why would we listen to gossip from an anonymous stranger?

How about Batista _and_ 3 months of a rehabbing Carlos Delgado for Justin Morneau? Maybe a little Cash to help defer his salary?

I don't know why they would give up Delgado and Batista. I love Morneau, but Batista is still a pretty valuable pitcher at the discount he's signed for. Batista can still be a big cog in a playoff run in '05 or '06.

20 of you talked to JP?? Thats great are you either naive enough to think he would tell you what was going on or just plain egotistical enough to think you know all?? Of course Coach you are the genuis who thinks that Tosca will last so of course why should I be welcome or post here. Geez guys get a grip on reality and embrace info instead of trashing it.

Sorry for posting here, I love this site and think you guys do a great job but not everyone will be on the same page and sometimes people will have information that otherwise isnt known. I will go back to reading the site and will refrain from posting information anymore that might offend the people on here since it might be different from their opinions. Again I do love the site.

Insider Info, why not take on a more conspicuous name and join in the fun? I bet it is easier for people to relate and embrace your opinions when you have an inclusive name. The Mr. X-style name makes you seem distant/removed. And I'm sure you'd be welcome here. But you gotta admit, Coach really does know his stuff when it comes to baseball, that is hard to deny.

Thanks Not H-Rod for the advice. Maybe your right. Coach knows his baseball of course but I try and bring an objective opinion in the box thats all. No homerism just what I know. Tosca is a goner thats it end of story. Trades would happen even with Batista depending on who is coming back. JP isnt going to say it at a fan fest thats for sure, anyone knows that.

How about Batista _and_ 3 months of a rehabbing Carlos Delgado for Justin Morneau? Maybe a little Cash to help defer his salary?

I assume you mean $cash$ and not Kevin Cash. :)

...and Tom Hicks wont have the guts to move Teixeira.

Hicks also doesn't want to be committed to a mental asylum. Teixeira could hit 30 homers this year... IN THE SECOND HALF.

Home runs in July:
Blue Jays: 8
Teixeira: 6

Geez guys get a grip on reality and embrace info instead of trashing it.

The problem with insider info in this case is that there's not much anybody can do except sit and wait for something to happen, maybe get a head start on arrangements for the Carlos Tosca Farewell Dinner.

JP isnt going to say it at a fan fest thats for sure, anyone knows that.

But someone would say it to you?

Insider, I'm sure everyone would agree that you're more than welcome to present your opinions here. But if that's what they are, opinions, then you're going get a much better response if you present them as such, not as matter-of-fact statements with no proof whatsoever. You kind of lose faith after so many false prophets, you know?

Nice to see some talk on the box, even with out a game going on. As far as getting some inside info, i have no complaints, as I can chose whether i believe it or not. But the guy should get a real name, like frank or filecabinet for example.

In 1991, after the Jays lost Game 4 of the ALCS, the Sun reported that it had learned that Game 2 winner Juan Guzman would be moved up to start Game 5 of the ALCS against the Twins, not Game 1 loser Tom Candiotti whom the Jays insisted would start.

Earlier this month, the New York Post reported that "the Post has learned" that Gephardt would be Kerry's running mate, not Edwards.

I think it would be a good promotion if, say, every Wednesday night was "Natural Sound Night". The speakers would only be used for lineup information. No music. No sound effects. No audio on the Jumbotron commercials. No insulting hints to make noise. Of course, fan noise would still be welcome.

When someone truly does have inside information, quite often the last thing they do (unless they're a member of the media) is share it with everyone else. For example, I found out about this year's uniform change back in August of 2002 from Paul Godfrey, but I didn't go around posting that information because I doubt he would have appreciated it.

Despite the irony in this comment, I was incredibly impressed no one had responded to the substance-lacking rumours that were posted for 1hr 40mins without a Bauxite response. They could have just as well gone unacknowledged and this thread would have been filled with far less hot air. Maybe next time we can take the high road and just let it pass.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=240715107
Wow - and here I thought Tosca's bullpen management was frustrating. COMN for the Royals/Twins box - Pena used five relievers to get through the final two innings.
(Mind you, they won, which I think is a big deal in KC right now...)

No insulting hints to make noise.

You got it. I was at the Dome last Saturday, the 11-2/Molina slam/Lightenberg-lights-the-fire debacle. In the 8th inning, Ryan Greer starts yelling at the crowd for several minutes, trying to get the wave started - while most of the fans are leaving the park.

In the 9th, he does the "Baseball North" thing, giving us the goods on the situation (still 11-2) and trying to whip the crowd into a frenzy.

Dude, the game is over. It was a disaster. Just let it go quietly, don't make things any more embarrassing than they already are. There will be other days to make noise.

If Texas trades Teixeira for Batista, I will eat my vintage 1977 Blue Jays cap (though my parents would have to dig it out of storage and send it to me, and if you all don't mind, there would be ketchup involved).

Tex's name has been mentioned in trade rumours on local sports talk radio for names like Barry Zito and Randy Johnson. (The former would be a mistake, as he is arcing into a Steve Avery career, while the latter only has a chance of happening if the Rangers have like a five game lead on July 30).

Miguel Batista would be the Rangers' third starter behind Kenny Rogers and Ryan Drese for cryin' out loud. It's true that Tex is the most notably available Ranger for the Boras reason and because of the presence of Adrian Gonzalez at OKC, but he's available in the same way that any player is "available" -- it'd take a lot, but even a Gretzky or a Shaq could hypothetically be traded some day.

Oh, wait ...

Actually, I think JP should consider taking Adrian Gonzalez in a potential Batista deal. As long as the Rangers ante up a pitching prospect as well it would be a worthwhile trade for the Jays and perhaps more palatable for the Rangers than giving up Tex.

All I will say is this... anyone posting with the name "Insider Info" is, surely, anything but. We don't mind you posting, pal; but don't get your knickers in a twist if we're sceptical. We're sceptical of *everyone*.

Miguel Batista would be the Rangers' third starter behind Kenny Rogers and Ryan Drese for cryin' out loud. It's true that Tex is the most notably available Ranger for the Boras reason and because of the presence of Adrian Gonzalez at OKC, but he's available in the same way that any player is "available" -- it'd take a lot, but even a Gretzky or a Shaq could hypothetically be traded some day.

Drese may have a pretty 3.77 ERA right now, but unless he starts striking out more guys soon, his ERA will go into the toilet. Drese has a 3 month track record of success while Batista is in his 4th solid year as a starter. It's pretty clear to me he's ahead of Drese.

Rogers is a finesse lefty who's 6 years older than Batista. They have comparable numbers this year, but Batista probably has 5 more good years left while Rogers is close to retirement.

Batista is easily ahead of both of those guys. And that's after removing my rose tinted glasses.

Adrian Gonzalez is a nice hitting prospect, but he's nowhere near as good as Teixeira. I think it would take more than just Gonzalez to land a starter as good (and cheap) as Miguel Batista.

I agree, Insider, you'd do better if you posted under a name that wasn't Insider Information. When a bunch of us have spent a very entertaining half hour with J.P. where he opened with "Ask me the hard questions, don't hide behind your computers", we are more likely to believe what we've heard from him (off the record, of course) than what we hear from someone posting under a handle like Insider Information.

The most fun part about trade rumors, though, is posting them as trade rumors and then arguing the heck out of whether or not they'd be good for the Jays, regardless of their reality. Totally, post what you have heard. Give us the dirt. Then let's all pick it to pieces.

But please, pick a ridiculous name like mine instead of Insider Information. Strangely, you'll get a lot more respect that way.