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After a tough loss on Tuesday night, the Jays came back for the series win. Swee-ee-t. Last night's game had the feel of a loss in the making early on. Falling behind 2-0 with Harden looking sharp on the mound is not a recipe for success, but the boys used patience and the big hit from Vernon along with fine bullpen work to head for Texas with a second straight W notched in their belts.


It was quite a series, as the Jays faced the three young pitching stars of the A's- Haren, Blanton and Harden. Jason Kendall was acquired this off-season; many, myself included, thought that part of the reason for the acquisition was to provide a steadying influence on the young pitchers. I reminded myself of the positive effect Pudge Rodriguez had on young pitching staffs in Florida and Detroit the past two seasons. I wondered if one could test whether this supposed steadying influence could be observed statistically.

So, I did a study. I looked at the effect of arrival since 1980 on veteran catchers on the young pitchers on their new teams. I used only teams which had at least 2 pitchers, who were either 25 or younger or had less than 30 prior starts as of the arrival of the veteran catcher. Each of the pitchers had to pitch in the previous season. It is for this reason that Javy Lopez was not included in this study, as Daniel Cabrera and Erik Bedard did not pitch in the major leagues prior to Lopez' arrival. The seasons included in the study were: Ivan Rodriguez, 2003 and 2004, Gary Carter 1985 and Carlton Fisk, 1981. It should be noted that 1981 was the strike season; that is the reason for the reduction in innings pitched for each of the White Sox starters that season.

Here are the results of the study:

	         IP	H	ER	W	K	HR	ERA	$W	$K	$HR	$H

Ivan Rodriguez- 2003

Penny-2002 129.33 148 67 50 93 18 4.66 0.387 0.719 0.139 1.144 Beckett-2002 107.66 93 49 44 113 13 4.1 0.409 1.05 0.121 0.864 Total-2002 237 241 116 94 206 31 4.41 0.397 0.869 0.131 1.017

Penny-2003	196.33	195	90	56	138	21	4.13	0.285	0.703	0.108	0.993
Beckett-2003	142	132	48	56	152	9	3.04	0.394	1.07	0.063	0.93
Total-2003	338.33	327	138	112	290	30	3.67	0.331	0.857	0.089	0.967

Ivan Rodriguez-2004

Bonderman-2003	162	193	100	58	108	23	5.56	0.358	0.666	0.142	1.191
Robertson-2003	44.66	55	27	23	33	6	5.44	0.515	0.739	0.135	1.232
Total-2003	206.66	248	127	81	141	29	5.53	0.392	0.682	0.14	1.2

Bonderman-2004	184	168	100	73	168	24	4.89	0.397	0.913	0.13	0.913
Robertson-2004	196.66	210	107	66	155	30	4.9	0.336	0.788	0.153	1.07
Totals-2004	380.66	378	207	139	321	54	4.89	0.365	0.843	0.142	0.993

Gary Carter-1985
Darling-1984	205.66	179	87	104	136	17	3.81	0.506	0.661	0.083	0.87
Gooden-1984	218	161	63	73	276	7	2.6	0.335	1.266	0.032	0.739
Fernandez-1984	90	74	35	34	62	8	3.5	0.378	0.689	0.089	0.822
Totals-1984	513.66	414	185	211	474	32	3.24	0.411	0.923	0.062	0.806

Darling-1985	248	214	80	114	167	21	2.9	0.46	0.673	0.085	0.863
Gooden-1985	276.66	198	47	69	268	13	1.53	0.249	0.969	0.047	0.716
Fernandez-1985	170.33	108	53	80	180	14	2.8	0.47	1.057	0.082	0.634
Totals-1985	695	520	180	263	615	48	2.33	0.378	0.885	0.069	0.748

Carlton Fisk-1981

Dotson-1980	198	185	94	87	109	20	4.27	0.439	0.551	0.101	0.934
Burns-1980	238	213	75	63	133	17	2.84	0.265	0.559	0.071	0.895
Trout-1980	199.66	229	82	49	89	14	3.7	0.245	0.446	0.07	1.147
Totals-1980	635.66	627	251	199	331	51	3.55	0.313	0.521	0.08	0.986

Dotson-1981	141	145	59	49	73	13	3.77	0.348	0.518	0.092	1.03
Burns-1981	156.66	139	46	49	108	14	2.64	0.313	0.689	0.089	0.887
Trout-1981	124.66	122	48	38	54	7	3.47	0.305	0.433	0.056	0.978
Totals-1981	422.33	406	153	136	235	34	3.26	0.322	0.556	0.081	0.961

Totals-year prior
1593 1530 679 577 1152 143 3.84 0.362 0.723 0.09 0.96
Totals-that year
1836.33 1631 678 650 1461 167 3.32 0.354 0.785 0.091 0.888

I had anticipated that there would be some improvement in the ERA, as all of these catchers were fine defensive players. I guessed that there would be small improvements in the walk and home run allowed rate. The results were not exactly what I expected- the ERA improvement of over half a run per game is larger than I would have guessed, and the improvements in strikeout and hit rate surprised me. I stress that the study is only a first look at this question. There are on average improvements for young pitchers, and those would need to be accounted for. If one wanted to, one could do a cohort study with young catchers.

Gregg Zaun will probably have a number of young pitchers on the staff in 2006. We'll see how well he does.

Links of the Day

John Brattain's Blue Jay report card in the Hardball Times

Dan Szymborski on Melky Cabrera

Value-Added Linear Weight research by Tom Ruane, published by retrosheet.org

Jays 4 A's 2-Experienced Catchers with young pitchers | 8 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
uglyone - Friday, July 08 2005 @ 10:26 AM EDT (#121855) #
A shout out to Gregg Zaun here....i think he's already showing us how well he handles young pitchers.

He's also been consistly in the top-10 in all of MLB for OPS and VORP for Catchers this year, and is up in 5th or 6th in both those categories right now.

Great defensively, blocks the plate as well as anyone, throws runners out very well, never let's any pitch get past him at the plate.

Gregg's been one of the better catchers in baseabll this year (and was pretty good last year as well)....which makes me wonder why I keep hearing the catcher position being one of J.P.'s priorities right now.

Is a backup catcher really that important?
Skills - Friday, July 08 2005 @ 10:35 AM EDT (#121857) #
It is at least in the sense that a catcher cannot play EVERY day. Therefore, it would be nice to have a serviceable backup. Putting Huckaby in there means you effectively have no chance for offense from the C spot.
Magpie - Friday, July 08 2005 @ 10:36 AM EDT (#121858) #
Is a backup catcher really that important?

Not as such - while it's enormously frustrating to watch Huckaby flailing away with a bat, an ordinary .220 hitting backup would have given the team only 5 additional hits this season. In that sense, it's really not such a huge deal.

But organizational depth in the position is important. And Zaun has already spent 15 days on the DL. Suppose he got hurt again?

Jordan - Friday, July 08 2005 @ 10:56 AM EDT (#121862) #
The Cubs have sent Jason Dubois back to the minors. After a hot April, he cooled off in May and didn't get regular playing time under Dusty Baker, who likes his veterans.

Dubois had started just 4 games since June 20, and at his demotion, he'd posted only .239/.289/.472 numbers with a brutal 7/49 BB/K line in 142 AB. But last year, he hit .316/.389/.630 for Triple-A Iowa, and while he'd likely always strike out a lot, he can hit and he has a lot of power. I sure would like to see him in the DH slot for Toronto, even if only against lefties to start with.
Mike Green - Friday, July 08 2005 @ 11:19 AM EDT (#121868) #
Jason Dubois or Josh Phelps would sure come a lot cheaper than Adam Dunn! Dubois' history with the Jays is less involved, and so it's more likely that he might find his way back.

When Koskie and Hudson return, there will be a surplus at the infield/DH spots. Moves will have to be made. Whether there will be a spot for a right-handed masher when the dust settles remains to be seen.
Named For Hank - Friday, July 08 2005 @ 01:24 PM EDT (#121881) #
Theo and I are sitting on the living room floor, watching the Jays In An Hour re-run of last night's game (which I only caught part of, on the radio) and eating a really particularly fantastic watermelon. Well, I'm eating it, and he's occasionally sucking on a piece until it turns white.

Life really doesn't get much better than this.
BCMike - Friday, July 08 2005 @ 02:15 PM EDT (#121891) #

John Brattain's Blue Jay report card in the Hardball Times

Ugg. Those offensive numbers are truly depressing. Good thing the bullpen has been so good and that Halladay is healthy, otherwise...

Named For Hank - Friday, July 08 2005 @ 02:23 PM EDT (#121893) #
Oh, and the mysteriously titled "Baseball: from Houston" block that followed Jays In An Hour in the StarChoice listings is actually a rerun of last year's home run derby. I had forgotten the hysterically funny moment when the catcher stood up and set up way outside when Bonds came to the plate, as if they were going to intentionally walk him. Barry's reaction -- a giant grin, followed by "Oh, come on!" -- was also fun. Actually, seeing him at that derby, particularly his post-at-bat interviews and analysis of the next batter really made him seem a lot more human, friendly and likable to me, far more so than anything else I saw, heard or read about him in 2004.

Dear Rogers Sportsnet: us stay-at-home dads really enjoy this kind of daytime counter-programming. I mean a lot. I'd be tickled to see reruns of previous home run derbies or All-Star games or old World Serieses on the schedule in the future, condensed or full length (and long games chopped into parts and shown over a few days wouldn't bother me at all). For instance, this home run derby has been shaved down to remove a lot of the festivities, like the introductions of all the great home run hitters and the explanations of the contests, and that's fine by me. In fact, had the broadcast shown all that stuff about the people's chances of winning the house, I probably would have flipped channels.

Good job, Sportsnet. Thank you, and keep it up.
Jays 4 A's 2-Experienced Catchers with young pitchers | 8 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.