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The two sides are getting closer and closer to a deal - I think we will get some baseball this year after all.
EDIT: We have a season! The league has issued an announcement stating that the owners unanimously agreed to launch the campaign after further negotiations with the players failed to result in a new deal.

  • The players would have $33MM of the $170MM advance they received from their March agreement with the owners forgiven, per Heyman. Teams, meanwhile, would be able to sell advertisements on uniforms in 2020 and ’21 in order to increase their revenues, according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post
  • The proposal adds the designated hitter position to the NL in 2020 and ’21, Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel tweets.
  • The postseason would expand to sixteen teams, per Bob Nightengale of USA Today (via Twitter.
  • With multiple reporters floating the concept, it sounds as if the expectation is for the union to press for some modest increase in the number of games beyond the sixty proposed. The MLBPA has made clear it hasn’t yet agreed to anything.
  • The proposal is indeed for sixty games with full pro rata pay, Buster Olney of reports on Twitter. The season would begin on July 19th.
This sounds very promising and the two sides seem to at last be getting serious about it rather than just proposing pie in the sky stuff.  I expect the players to push for 72 games and in the end it becomes 66 which would work out to 40.7% of a season and that much pay which is the upper end of the owners various proposals.  60 games is 37%.  So what would that mean?
  • 60 games = 6 games vs each team in your division = 24 games; 6 vs the 5 in another = 30 more = 54 games leaving 6 more to be assigned.  Make 1 series vs each team in your own division a 4 game set and 2 vs teams in the other division and you got your 60 games.
  • 66 games = 8 games vs each team in your division = 32 games, 7 vs the 5 in another = 35 leading to 67 games - so one game vs a team in the other division gets cut out. 
  • 72 games = 8 games vs each team in your division = 32 games, 8 games vs each team in another division = 40 game; total of 72.  Nice and simple.  A bit of a scheduling issue as that would mean you have no 3 game series, only 4 game ones or a 3 and a 5  Could go on an 8 day plan thus some series would start on a Sunday and go to Tuesday and other oddities but I doubt anyone would care with no fans in the stands. 
  • 82 games = 12 games vs each team in your division = 48 games, 6 games vs each team in another division = 30 games, add 4 more via 1 extra vs each team in your own division to get to 82.  Then we have a half season which most fans would prefer but owners would balk big time that would cost them 25% more than a 60 game season and put the post season at risk.
I'm sure there are 101 other ways to do this, but those are the easiest ways that came to mind.  The big challenge will be where to play.  Florida is becoming a hotspot as is a big part of Arizona which doesn't help things.  California is seeing hot spots too as is Texas.  Not good.  Obviously we won't get games in Toronto unless things fully open up which is very unlikely.  Right now Dunedin looks to be in a very hot spot for COVID so the Jays won't want to be there I'd think.  If I was to pick for MLB I'd set it up in Arizona and just make it work there.  As closed in as possible.

FYI: Past proposals were for AL East to play with the NL East, the Centrals to play each other, and the Wests to do the same.  Thus the Jays would face the Yankees, Red Sox, Orioles, and Rays as always plus Atlanta, Mets, Washington, Philly and Miami.  Tough for any wildcard slots (outside of being able to beat up on Miami and Baltimore) but it would make for entertaining games.
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ISLAND BOY - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 03:21 AM EDT (#387554) #
I suppose if there are no fans in the building then it doesn't matter where the Jays play.
scottt - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 09:00 AM EDT (#387556) #
If the rosters are increased as previously planned, that adds another 300K to each payroll.
I don't see the DH adding anything. Teams will probably just rotate their best bench hitters and rest their regular players more often.

A bit surprised they need the players agreement to put adds on the uniforms.
Who's advertising for the Jays, Heinz, West Jet (nope), Rogers? I think Honda is done.

greenfrog - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 09:28 AM EDT (#387560) #
If the Jays advance to the postseason, they could have a chance to do well with a rotation that includes Ryu and Pearson, a bullpen that includes Giles, and a lineup that includes Bichette/Guerrero Jr./Biggio/Gurriel Jr./Jansen/Shaw/Grichuk/Hernandez.

It’s not a great roster, but with a bit of luck they could make some noise.
bpoz - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#387562) #
Atkins specialty is obtaining depth. Vlad should have less of an issue with getting tired in a short season. However this is a young team on a learning curve. I expect to be optimistic. I always am.
uglyone - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 12:17 PM EDT (#387563) #
To state the obvious - the NL going full DH significantly increases the value of all-hit No-D guys like Vladdy (and hopefully Rowdy).
SK in NJ - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#387566) #
I actually welcome a lot of the changes being discussed (expanded playoffs, universal DH, etc). The expanded playoffs is clearly being done for financial reasons, but ultimately the game needs to make changes that will help potentially bring in newer/younger fans. The days of baseball being America's #1 sport and fans appreciating the long grind + the difficulty of making the playoffs is over. Baseball has one advantage over every other sport, and that is sheer volume of inventory/content. They need to make more of that content actually mean something, and hopefully increasing the number of playoff teams does that. Adding the DH to the NL is a no brainer. The fact that this took until 2020 to be implemented is crazy to me. The 'baseball purist' is hurting the growth of the game more than helping it at this point.

No deal is signed yet, but hopefully they can agree to a deal around 60-70 games. It is not ideal, and they should have been able to squeeze more games in if they tried to get this straightened out earlier, but a condensed season is better than no season at all. If the Jays make the playoffs due to an expanded format, even better.
Mike Green - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 02:02 PM EDT (#387567) #
The NBA's return to play plan is running into realities of life in the States.  Here's the story from Orlando from the print version of the Globe and Mail today.  Players will be "invited" to wear proximity alarms and wellness rings. 

My kids got me the book "The Resisters" by Gish Jen for my birthday.  It's a feminist baseball dystopia story so it clicks all the boxes around my house, and it's set in America in the not-too-distant future.  Proximity alarms would be called something like NettieNannies and wellness rings would be HealthHelpers, but otherwise the NBA story reminds me a lot of the book with the disaster du jour being a pandemic rather than flooding from the effects of climate change.  The heroine of the story is a young pitcher who bears a certain resemblance (age and gender aside) to Satchel Paige.
scottt - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 02:02 PM EDT (#387568) #
I don't see how the DH helps at all.
Most people who have played the game and been any good at it have both pitched and hit.
Trying to sell to game to people who haven't played it is a waste of time.
This isn't UFC.

SK in NJ - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 02:23 PM EDT (#387569) #
Pitchers hit a combined .128 in 2019. There is nothing interesting about a pitcher batting. It's an automatic out and a job being taken away from someone who might actually be able to hit. A universal DH is not to attract new fans, it is to make the game more watchable.
uglyone - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 02:38 PM EDT (#387570) #
sometimes batters pitch and its amusing in a car crash kind of way.

but for some reason they make (made?) pitchers hit every single game. never made sense.
scottt - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 02:51 PM EDT (#387571) #
As in trade value? The Jays are probably not going to play that many games in NL parks this year.
I just assume the guys who pinch hit for the pitchers will just play more.
As you can't substitute for the DH, the dream DH is likely a switch hitter.
Maybe they need to revisit that rule.

The key part for the Jays is to find ways to get some production out of the outfield.
They might start with 5 outfielders.
The other important part is to keep Drury off the field.

In a short season, you don't have a month to take a long look at a struggling player.

85bluejay - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 02:52 PM EDT (#387572) #
Making the DH universal in MLB is long overdue .
scottt - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 02:56 PM EDT (#387573) #
It's like the blue line in Hockey. You could get rid of it and the scoring would increase and the game would be over faster with fewer interruptions, but it stays, along with dubious calls, because people expect it. 
John Northey - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 03:34 PM EDT (#387575) #
Excellent point Uglyone - I remember years ago a game with Texas (forget who against) where a hitter was pitching and Texas' manager (Bobby Valentine) had a pitcher come up to hit against him. That is making a blowout fun imo. Having a pitcher hit vs a real pitcher is not fun - sometimes funny (especially when the pitcher hitting gets a hit) but normally boring and rally killing. Last year pitchers in the majors hit a combined 128/159/163 with the best team being Oakland in 24 PA hitting 286/348/286 then the Mets at 167/198/241. I think I'd rather watch a guy like Tellez hit.
scottt - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#387576) #
The players are supporting the DH because they think it will help older players sign lucrative contracts.
There is nothing exciting about watching guys like Smoak and Morales run the bases and hopefully this is not what will happen.

Obviously, people who have been watching the American League for decades think it's a superior product.
The NL has been more exciting lately.
The AL has been caught cheating to keep up.
Astros, Red Sox, and I'm sure the Yankees.

Dewey - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 03:46 PM EDT (#387577) #
"The other important part is to keep Drury off the field."

Hey, that feels a bit more like an actual season might happen! Scott slags Drury again. We’re getting warmer.

(I sometimes wonder whatever happened to Ryan Goins.) Is he starring somewhere?
Chuck - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#387578) #
It's a feminist baseball dystopia story so it clicks all the boxes around my house

Hell of a house!

Chuck - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#387579) #
I sometimes wonder whatever happened to Ryan Goins.

He ain't dead yet. Goins stealthily posted the highest OPS+ of his career last year, playing for the White Sox.

bpoz - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 04:06 PM EDT (#387580) #
Chuck deserves an award for being in mid-season form!!
John Northey - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#387581) #
Getting closer - now the players want a 70 game season, owners 60. Owners complaining that 'we had a deal' but until the lawyers sign off it isn't a deal.

Should be interesting to see where it goes next - hopefully a deal is done today or tomorrow. BR simulated season has Vlad at 302/380/601, Bo at 284/353/470, Gurriel 275/315/559, Biggio 253/353/419 - would love to see it in real life instead though. Pearson they put on opening day roster (not a hope of that in real life) with a 3.42 ERA over 79 IP 15 starts. I question the simulator though when I see stuff like Baltimore beating the Jays 21-1 although part is due to hitters pitching at the end (Alford gives up 5). Jays are 32-43 tied with the Red Sox and just 1 game up on the O's.
scottt - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 05:12 PM EDT (#387582) #
Let's see. 4 division rivals x 12 = 48, that's like the minimum.

Let's add a few games against other local teams. 
3 is like the minimum for a series. I hate those 2 game series that have no winners.
3 x 7 = 21.

There it is. The magic number is 69.

Shoeless Joe - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 10:31 PM EDT (#387586) #
With expanded playoffs and no minor league season, how does Pearson not make it on the roster from day 1.
SK in NJ - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 10:40 PM EDT (#387587) #
If the 2020 season happens and Pearson is not in the rotation from the start, then that would be a massive mistake. I expect he will be.
ayjackson - Thursday, June 18 2020 @ 11:56 PM EDT (#387588) #
I expect Nate to start. He's 24 years old and will have no innings limits. What could possibly be the holdup?
John Northey - Friday, June 19 2020 @ 01:53 AM EDT (#387589) #
The hold up (for 3 starts roughly) would be to get an extra year of control. That would be it. They'd claim they want him to get more "spring" innings before going 5+, that he just isn't ready to go that long yet.

I'm also curious how they handle Martin if he goes to camp (assuming he signs) and tears the cover off the ball given the obvious need in CF. The last (and only) Blue Jay to go from college straight to the majors was John Olerud in 1989 (3 for 8 for a playoff bound team, then a 794 OPS the following season, 1.7 WAR, his lowest WAR until he was 35 and playing under half a season).

This will be challenging and some moves will be needed that no one would've thought of doing normally with such a short season. Rotation will be Ryu, Shoemaker, Anderson, Roark, with Kay, Thornton, Yamaguchi trying to grab that last slot. Thornton has the lead at the end of the short spring with a 4.22 ERA over 10 2/3 IP. Pearson was crazy good (7 IP 3 BB 11 SO). SRF also was doing well 0 ER over 6 IP 1 BB 4 SO. So lots of choices, lots of ways to dance around giving Pearson those 3-5 starts that would bump him from 6 years of control to 7 (like happened with Vlad) and odds are low that giving those starts to one of the others (Thornton or SRF or Kay or Yamaguchi or someone else) will be the difference.

I expect to see openers and tandem starts a lot - maybe SRF/Kay (true tandem) so you have a L/R mix, maybe Pannone (1 or 2 IP)/Thornton, etc. Lots of options to play with. I really hope we get it soon as it'll be fun to watch - just don't think about how it isn't 'real' baseball due to the short season and enjoy it for what it is - a one year experiment.
scottt - Friday, June 19 2020 @ 06:58 AM EDT (#387590) #
I don't know, but I bet a spring training camp invite with the big boys would be a huge incentive to sign right away.
bpoz - Friday, June 19 2020 @ 09:17 AM EDT (#387591) #
Thanks for the math on Pearson John N.

So no matter what happens the players will get less than full pay.

Every team will make less revenue because of no fans and a short schedule. Less revenue is better than no revenue. So "Play Ball"!!
rpriske - Friday, June 19 2020 @ 09:40 AM EDT (#387592) #
The DH makes for better baseball, but Personally I like the leagues being different. Oh well.

Of course it looks like this year the leagues are being thrown out. I imagine this is a precursor to bigger changes.

But, this sentence "Trying to sell to game to people who haven't played it is a waste of time." literally makes no sense. You think that the only people who watch baseball are people who played it? If that were truly the case, the sport would be in BIG trouble.
Parker - Friday, June 19 2020 @ 09:59 AM EDT (#387593) #
I really hope the uniform advertising is only a temporary thing to replace lost gate revenue. If I have to watch the Jays running around like a bunch of clowns with Vagisil, Minute Lube, and patches all over their uniforms, I'll probably quit watching baseball entirely and just follow it on BR instead. Advertising on uniforms has a ridiculous stink of low-class and has absolutely no place in Major League Baseball, especially when the owners are already making record profits every year.

Advertising on uniforms is so your beer league softball team doesn't have to pay for their own jerseys. Maybe the owners should just ask the players to start paying for their own uniforms or something. Jesus. I'm really starting to hate MLB.
mathesond - Friday, June 19 2020 @ 11:07 AM EDT (#387594) #
"There is nothing exciting about watching guys like Smoak and Morales run the bases "

Whereas watching pitchers run the bases is as exciting as all get-out!
Chuck - Friday, June 19 2020 @ 11:44 AM EDT (#387595) #
Whereas watching pitchers run the bases is as exciting as all get-out!

I dunno. This was exciting in its own pitiful way.

scottt - Friday, June 19 2020 @ 12:09 PM EDT (#387596) #
Pitchers don't hit for the entire game. They get replaced with bench players.
This advantages the losing team, because they might pull their pitcher out first.
Leads are smaller. Games are closer.  Baseball is more exciting.

Which league do you think has the higher attendance?

In 2019, the NL had only 3 teams with less than 2M, the AL had 9.
The AL had 3 teams over 2.5M in attendance, the NL had 8.

If they want to make the game more popular, they should focus on the league with all the empty seats.

Paul D - Friday, June 19 2020 @ 02:24 PM EDT (#387597) #
Some bad news on the opening front: @JeffPassan The Toronto Blue Jays on Thursday shut down their spring training facility in Dunedin, Fla., after a player exhibited COVID-19 symptoms, sources tell ESPN. Dunedin is just up the road from Clearwater, where eight people in the Philadelphia Phillies organization tested positive. The Blue Jays player exhibiting the symptoms is a pitcher on the 40-man roster who recently had spent time with players in the Phillies’ minor leagues system, according to sources. He has been tested for COVID-19 and is awaiting results.
uglyone - Friday, June 19 2020 @ 02:42 PM EDT (#387598) #
Every sport should be planning a return in Canada, not in the southern US.
scottt - Friday, June 19 2020 @ 02:53 PM EDT (#387599) #
For Hockey, since they want to play in only 2 arenas, a site in Canada would make sense.
Just not Montreal or Toronto.

For baseball with the 14 day isolation period, not happening.
If you make an exception for baseball, nobody will follow the rules.

uglyone - Friday, June 19 2020 @ 02:59 PM EDT (#387600) #
Pick like Sudbury or something to make a real bubble.
Gerry - Friday, June 19 2020 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#387601) #

Italics, be gone.


uglyone - Friday, June 19 2020 @ 04:15 PM EDT (#387602) #
Not baseball obviously but still relevant - Auston Matthews tests positive for COVID.
AWeb - Friday, June 19 2020 @ 07:00 PM EDT (#387603) #
So has someone on the Jays apparently, and the spring training facilities are shut down for the Jays and Phillies already. This is before a season is even officially trying to start. I'll be pretty surprised if any of the pro sports manage to go forward, aside from solo endeavors like golf (where a sick player just doesn't get to play).  MLB just has too many people, and despite gameplay that would seem  to be ideally suited to keeping separate, it's still a sport where guys spend a lot of time within 6 feet of each other. Every play starts with 3 guys standing right next to each other around home plate.  Has anyone mentioned that umps need to be limited to signals and stop yelling out calls? Because yelling/singing is a great way to spread it. Arguments with umps will have to be completely banned.

And gathering in ****ing Florida or Arizona right now? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

The NBA is so star-driven that a single prominent player getting it (again) delegitimizes the whole thing. The NHL has one prominent team shut down already (Tampa), and game play itself is an obvious an inevitable vector for spreading it. Football doesn't even seem plausible.

I'd volunteer my province for all the sports, but we;re positive test free for 10 days now, and I'd rather keep that going.
Magpie - Friday, June 19 2020 @ 07:09 PM EDT (#387604) #
I'll be pretty surprised if any of the pro sports manage to go forward

Me too. And I certainly don't think they'll be able to manage it in Florida, of all places.
scottt - Friday, June 19 2020 @ 08:24 PM EDT (#387605) #
Giants have closed their facility as well. 11 players have tested positive so far.
(This is a team with a relatively large payroll and no chance to compete).

That's it for any proposal to go over 60 games.
MLB might decide to close all 30 training facilities in order to fully decontaminate them and introduce better protocols to keep infected people out.
The proposal to use hubs--like the NHL--is back on the table.

John Northey - Friday, June 19 2020 @ 08:38 PM EDT (#387606) #
Any proposal outside of the Hub idea was idiotic imo. Pick a spring facility with at least 4 full sized diamonds and go with it - 4 games at a time, 8 teams. 10 AM, 2 PM, 6 PM, 10 PM games each day with teams shifting no more than 1 time slot at a time (IE: 2 PM to 6 PM or 10 AM, 6 PM to 2 PM or 10 PM) if moving more than 1 slot then you get a day off unless going later in the day. Could work. Would need an inning limit (say 10 innings) until the playoffs.

Far from ideal, but it could work. Keeps all the players in one area - ideally a hotel is attached to the complex picked.

Now if the 2 sides would just make the bloody deal and get it going.
AWeb - Saturday, June 20 2020 @ 07:38 AM EDT (#387607) #
One obvious thing I forgot that could be changed...the time is perfect to go with automatic strike zones, keeping the home plate ump stationed 15 feet away and at a better angle to see foul tips and balls in the dirt. Or just further back, not sure about safety. With tracking on every pitch and batted ball, mlb should be able to pinpoint the absolute safest spot.
scottt - Saturday, June 20 2020 @ 10:41 AM EDT (#387608) #
Arizona is too hot during the day and Florida doesn't seem to have a government.

Still, no state tax? Does that mean the players would save a bundle by playing there?

scottt - Saturday, June 20 2020 @ 10:44 AM EDT (#387609) #
It depends. Not all fields have the required cameras in place.
Also, you must have forgotten than the umpires have their own union.
The change for this year is that they will have to explain the reasoning behind every out of whack video replay decision.
We'll see who's good at keeping a straight face and not rolling the eyes.

scottt - Saturday, June 20 2020 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#387615) #
Last I heard, all teams will train at home except the Blue Jays who will train at the House of Horrors in Florida.

Mylegacy - Saturday, June 20 2020 @ 04:33 PM EDT (#387616) #
Covid-19 is beginning to try my patience. In fairness to patience, she and I have had only a passing acquaintance at the best of times. And these are not the best of times.

For some reason, perhaps an emotionally disturbed childhood, every member of the Covid family of spiky balls are not sports fans! Appalling when you think about it.

It is not being talked about enough - BUT - Covid-19 is NOT your fathers flu. Covid-19 is exploding in the southern US at a time when the heat should be destroying it.

President Putin's Puppet in Washington has on occasion been known to take to the Twitter Thingy to amuse and amaze us. Generally, much of what he says could be construed as being a tad inaccurate. A month or two ago he said something I more or less agreed with. Yes, I know I've just lost any chance I had to enter through the Pearly Gates. What he said was, "All of a sudden, like magic, the Covid-19 will melt away." As a soon to be 74 year old his statement was not outrageously inconsistent with my own 73+ years of experience with "seasonal bugs."

On September 11th 2001 just under 3,000 souls were lost when the Twin Towers in New York were attacked. America was OUTRAGED, OUTRAGED I TELL YOU, armies were raised, bombs build, distant lands were blown to dust, countless thousands were killed, orphaned, families destroyed, wars forever, the smell of cordite in distant lands. Peace, peace at last (ya right).


At the bottom of this page is a link to the world wide, 7 page, list of companies and countries attempting to build a vaccine. Hopefully, at least some of these will work, only a few will kill, and the few good ones will be shared by all humanity.

Personally, I desperately want to see on television, my MLB team, my NFL team, my CFL team and my NHL team. I can live with no fans in the stands, with some players too sick to play or too infected to play. I am also prepared to support the professional medical advice and see this sportless spring and summer of our discontent extended to include a fall and winter of privation if that is what the situation requires.

Our species is under attack. An enemy has infected a few and counted on our stupidity and willful ignorance to have us infect each other into the millions. You and I can gleefully continue the enemies successful destruction or we can become one the few, one of the brave and actually suffer the indignity and outrage of wearing a mask and perhaps, missing a season on our beloved games.

What follows is the addressy thingy for the website within which one can find the magic 7 page list.

Stay well, stay safe, try not to kill your parents nor kill your children's parents. Even one worthless rambling old fool like me is worth saving, if all it takes is a mask and 6 feet of space.
grjas - Saturday, June 20 2020 @ 07:52 PM EDT (#387617) #
Can’t see pro sports returning anytime soon. America’s numbers are deplorable, and the only major economy that hasn’t had a significant decline in infections. “Give me liberty or give me death” is trending to the latter.

Hope the government stays the course on border closures including athletes. Canadians have stayed the course too well to be derailed by our dopey cousins south of the border.

bpoz - Sunday, June 21 2020 @ 08:59 AM EDT (#387618) #
Well said Mylegacy.

Happy Fathers Day!! In the virus thread I learned that all of you are good human beings. Many fathers and quite a few grandfathers.
John Northey - Sunday, June 21 2020 @ 11:16 PM EDT (#387619) #
The story keeps moving...
Now: MLB is willing to make some changes to its proposal to make sure it isn't too much in owners favor if 2020 is fully canceled - no expanded playoffs in 2021, no universal DH in 2021 (not sure why the players wouldn't want that). Owners want to shift to home parks in all cases (well, except the Jays who imo should use Buffalo if they can't use the dome as it is a near MLB ready park already and is very physically close to Toronto, and has lower cases than Florida due to having a governor with a brain, plus I'm sure the Bisons would like to have a tenant for that field this year since AAA games aren't going to happen). Given all that the earliest 'summer training' can start is June 29th it seems, which also means the season wouldn't have enough time for more than 60 games if they want to end at the end of September. These COVID cases in spring training facilities really helped the owners in this case in a backwards way because now they have the perfect excuse in court for why they couldn't play 70+ games - the plans for using a small location were killed due to this outbreak and due to Florida being run by a moron.

Chuck - Monday, June 22 2020 @ 10:23 AM EDT (#387620) #
John's enthusiasm notwithstanding, a poll would be interesting. Will there be a 2020 season, yes or no? Perhaps a secondary question with tranches, as answers, for the number of games that will be played.
scottt - Monday, June 22 2020 @ 11:03 AM EDT (#387621) #
Not sure why the players would want a DH.
One use for the DH is to provide a role for players who are no longer fit to play but still on a long contract, like say Pujols.
Such players have they money guaranteed anyway.
The other reason is that  it looks better on the 20 secs news highlight, which people who pay for networking rights think is valuable.

Is physically close to Toronto an advantage if you can' cross the border?

Also, I don't think the players care about spring training. Why not skip it? Make every "training" game count, put them on TV and pay the players for them.

The players made it so their agreement is required to play unless MLB forces a season with the maximum number of games at the prorated rate. That leaves them totally vulnerable to the season being canceled altogether.

Now at least 10 teams have either a player or a staff member who has tested positive.

bpoz - Monday, June 22 2020 @ 12:39 PM EDT (#387623) #
If there is no season we should be able to draft at #5 again.

I guess strict guidelines will be forthcoming about the Rule 5 draft if it happens. I expect that no options are burned anyway with no minor league season.

John Northey - Monday, June 22 2020 @ 01:31 PM EDT (#387624) #
Yeah, some advantages for the Jays if no season. I'm guessing the draft next year will either be based on 2019 or on a mix of 2019 and whatever 2020 season we get. Either way works well for the Jays most likely.

As to the season - players are voting today on what the owners said was their 'final offer' - while I'd love the players to sign and start the season going, I doubt they will. Just the way things have gone. Sigh.
John Northey - Monday, June 22 2020 @ 08:11 PM EDT (#387625) #
OK, getting to the wire now - players formally rejected the owners 60 game proposal by a vote of 33-5. Sigh. Owners not expected to respond immediately, Manfred has the right to declare a season and pick the number of games, but if he goes with fewer than 60 you can expect players to fight him in court over it which could lead to owners paying players for 12 games not played (owners want 48 games). Guess it will all depend on lawyers now - owners might try to cancel the season but that would be suicide on their parts (significant drop in franchise values, no real gain, and we repeat this in 2022 on the basic agreement).

Maybe the owners will cancel in order to try to break the players financially (no salary this year beyond the stipend given earlier) so they cannot go on strike in 2022. But given they might lose a court case on this they could end up paying the players for 60 games anyways with no games and no revenue. One heck of a risk to take imo. Their only way to win that would be via a major outbreak at camps beyond what we've seen so far (IE: hitting at least half the teams, not 1/3rd, and multiple players on each team).

Probably the best thing for owners to do is schedule the 48 games as they wanted, then hope to get lucky in the courts over those 12 other games. I could see them pushing the playoffs to start earlier than before so they can be done in early/mid-October rather than mid/late-October. Then argue that was needed due to the risk of a second wave. Regular season ending September 20th or even earlier to ensure it.

No matter how we cut it, 2022 is looking more of a nightmare situation than hoped for. We have the two sides going at each other like we haven't seen since 1994/1995.
85bluejay - Monday, June 22 2020 @ 08:44 PM EDT (#387626) #
I think no baseball season is probably best given what's happening in the U.S. - see you next year, maybe.
BlueJayWay - Monday, June 22 2020 @ 09:08 PM EDT (#387627) #
Seeing all over twitter that MLB will implement the 60 game schedule. I guess that's full pro rated pay, but without all the other stuff (expanded playoffs, universal DH) that would have required player agreement.
John Northey - Monday, June 22 2020 @ 10:58 PM EDT (#387628) #
Yep, that is what I'm reading - via MLB Trade Rumors.
The 2020 season is now slated to proceed under the terms of the late March agreement previously reached between MLB and the players’ association. The league has issued an announcement stating that the owners unanimously agreed to launch the campaign after further negotiations with the players failed to result in a new deal.
The campaign will ultimately be established at sixty games in length, according to Bob Nightengale of USA Today.
The players are indeed expected to respond favorably to the league’s requests regarding reporting timeline and health and safety protocols, Jeff Passan of ESPN reports.
So long as the final points can be tidied up, it seems the resumption of play will be underway within a week.
AWeb - Monday, June 22 2020 @ 11:25 PM EDT (#387629) #
60 games starting around july 24th, with reporting to camp on Canada day. It will be morbidly interesting to see what happens when players test positive. Against all indications, I hope this somehow goes well. And if a 60 game season happens? Youneverknow...
SK in NJ - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 12:16 AM EDT (#387630) #
I would hope the Jays avoid Florida at all costs if they can’t play games in Toronto. If Buffalo is the next best thing, then go there. With no fans in attendance, the stadium doesn’t really matter. There will undoubtedly be players who test positive before the season and during the season so I’m curious to see how the league handles that without shutting the season down.

There is no expanded playoffs from the sounds of it so that combined with a regional based schedule (AL and NL East) makes it hard to see the Jays making it, but 60 games is such a small sample size that there might be a surprise team who overachieves their way in.

This season (if it actually starts and concludes) will have asterisks all over it but it is better than nothing.
scottt - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 06:39 AM EDT (#387631) #
The stadium matters somewhat.
Florida is probably easier on pitchers.

There are rumours that the schedule would only include games in one's own division; so for the Jays, AL East and NL east. The problem area there is Florida.

ayjackson - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 08:05 AM EDT (#387632) #
The Jays should play out of Dyersville, Iowa.
scottt - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 10:00 AM EDT (#387633) #
Stays negative everyone!

In a 60 game schedule, pitching will matter a lot and the Jays have to put the ball in play.
I want to see Pearson, but it will suck if he plays a full season without even starting a game in Toronto.

James W - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 10:03 AM EDT (#387634) #
Novak Djokovic and 3 other tennis players tested positive after a recent exhibition series he organized.

I expect something similar will happen in MLB (again), making the season even uglier than the prolonged negotiations about money.
Mike Green - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 11:36 AM EDT (#387635) #
Yes, James W.  Tennis ought to be easier than baseball to organize without disease spread among the athletes.

Also, Dr. Fauci has suggested that it would be better if baseball was finished its post-season by the end of September.  Of course, the Lords of the Realm have company in not following Dr. Fauci's advice.
John Northey - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 11:56 AM EDT (#387636) #
60 games can create odd results...
1993: John Olerud team games 11-71: 417/519/738
1999: Tony Fernandez team games 11-71: 432/504/586

Hmm... if someone hits 400 this year boy will it get * all over eh? Under 502 PA for certain, but impressive none-the-less. 186 PA = 3.1 per game for 60 so that is the likely qualifier.

In 1984 the Detroit Tigers were 44-16 after 60 games (35-5 start) - a 119 win pace. Ouch. But what we'll most likely hear most is how Washington was just 27-33 after 60 last year.

I suspect the 60 games will be a lot like I mention above...
6 games vs each team in your division (4 teams) = 24 games; 6 vs the 5 in another = 30 more = 54 games leaving 6 more to be assigned. Make 1 series vs each team in your own division a 4 game set and 2 vs teams in the other division and you got your 60 games. Or you could add 1 home series and 1 away series vs a 'natural rival' (IE: Yankees/Mets, Rays/Marlins, Baltimore/Washington, Boston/Atlanta [used to be in Boston], Toronto/Phillies [faced in a WS...OK, no natural rivals since Expos moved]). I suspect the 'rivals' method will be used as that'd get better TV ratings.
John Northey - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 12:05 PM EDT (#387637) #
More details....
  • Training camp starts on July 1
  • Season starts July 24-26
  • Universal DH in 2020 is likely, as both sides see pluses to it (try to minimize risks to pitchers)
  • Jays might play in either Buffalo, Dunedin, or Tropicana (share with Rays)
  • The league and union had already agreed to begin extra innings with a runner on second base in an effort to avoid marathon games. (ugh - I'd prefer ties which is also being talked about)
  • Discussed the possibility of allowing already subbed-out players to reenter the game once it reaches extras
  • League’s health and safety protocols will be approved/fought by the players by 5 PM today - lets hope this goes smoothly.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 12:09 PM EDT (#387638) #
By the time the next CBA is agreed upon (assuming they don't have a lockout/strike first), I would expect all of 1) expanded playoffs, 2) universal DH, and 3) runner on 2nd to start extra innings to be long-term changes implemented.
Four Seamer - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#387639) #
Yes, James W. Tennis ought to be easier than baseball to organize without disease spread among the athletes. You would think, but the stop on the tour that seems to have spread the disease around was conducted without even the faintest regard for physical distancing - venues at capacity, players embracing at the net, partying together in the evenings, etc. (and we may later determine that the disease spread not on the court but in the nightclubs where the players limbo danced together). I am not sure that it tells us very much about the risk associated with other outdoor activities, conducted with regard for physical distancing requirements, although locker room proximity has to be a concern.
AWeb - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 01:35 PM EDT (#387640) #
1) solves the problem of owners not having enough money? Hate it. Stop expanding baseball playoffs, they play so many games already.

2) I like. Pitcher hitting stats get worse and worse, and most pitchers never hit anyway...relievers.

3) is terrible? It's not even an efficient tie breaker, because further ties are possible. I prefer a) as it is; b) just have 12 inning ties; c) a system where the road team picks the base/out situation and the home team chooses offense or defense, offense must score a run to win, again after 12 innings; d) the minor league rule nonsense. It also further incentivizes not having any relievers capable of pitching multiple innings, right after making a rule change to ensure they pitch at least one inning. Bah humbug to that.
Mike Green - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 02:31 PM EDT (#387641) #
Fair enough, Four Seamer.  Djokovic didn't quite go full-on anti-vaxx, but pretty close.  I guess it comes as no surprise that the one advantage (sorry!) tennis has, they squandered.  Hubris.
scottt - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 02:39 PM EDT (#387642) #
The Jays chances become a matter of staying healthier or having better depth than the rest of the division.

On that front, it would make sense to stay out of Tampa.

What happens when a player is traded to another division or signed from free agency?
Does he have to isolate for 14 days somewhere before joining the team?

I will enjoy the lack of spitting, but I wonder what will happen if the ump see one player spit.
Is there a penalty? Is that reviewable?

I'm totally OK with the DH this year because we might have only 1 series against the NL East teams and the Jays will carry 4 or 5 players who are not there because they can field.

SK in NJ - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 02:46 PM EDT (#387643) #
1) solves the problem of owners not having enough money? Hate it. Stop expanding baseball playoffs, they play so many games already.

Yes it would purely be a money grab for the owners, but MLB needs to adapt to the changing sports climate. Baseball is not the #1 sport in the US anymore. The marathon season and condensed playoff format to determine who the best team really is doesn't have the same appeal as it did 30 years ago (and the playoffs were even harder to get to back then). Baseball now needs to find a way to make their enormous catalog of content actually mean something, and the only way to do that would be to put more teams in meaningful playoff races. It will water the playoffs down for sure, but this is an adapt or die sports landscape. They can't live off the same logic that worked decades ago and expect the game to thrive.

As far as the runner on 2nd to start extra innings, they'll definitely do it in 2020 because they don't want marathon games during a shortened pandemic season, but long-term I think it will have some benefits. Who really benefits from regular season games going 18 innings? It doesn't put any more money in anyone's pockets, the players take on greater injury risk, and rosters have to be adjusted after the fact to accommodate for it. Not to mention most fans file out of the stadium well before the extra inning game ends. Maybe the runner on 2nd isn't necessarily the best idea, but trying to speed up extra innings is the right call. Baseball games are considered too long as it is.
AWeb - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 03:53 PM EDT (#387644) #
I just don't think the logic follows that because other sports have more exciting and longer playoffs, baseball should go that way. Baseball is unique among the major sports in that it has become more regional than ever, thanks to blackouts, local cable deals, and the opportunity to go to so many games. A lot of playoff match-ups simply don't interest a lot of baseball fans.  Stars are not only less likely to shine, they are unlikely to shine (i.e., the best player actually performs the best), in a playoff series. Better players are more likely to be WS MVP, but unlike, say, the NBA/NFL/NHL, literally any regular starter or starting pitcher might win. I don't know how to fix it, but you can't just make it more like the NFL or NBA and hope excitement follows.

Baseball games are too long? If only there was an obvious fix, already in the rules and the minor leagues, to making them faster. There are time limits for pitchers and batters in the rules already, they just aren't enforced. Extremely long games are memorable and rare. Baseball teams shuffle rosters so much now anyway, it hardly matters why to me. I like other solutions better. The statistical record also becomes a garbled mess...a bunch of UE runs against relievers will look weird. And since the runner is the last guy to make an out (or his pinch runner), there will be a weird slight inflation of runs scored for guys more likely to make outs. 2 outs, bottom of the ninth, do you send up a terrible hitter (but great runner) on purpose and get them to make an out more or less on purpose?  What a terrible thing to add to the game.
scottt - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 04:04 PM EDT (#387645) #
The games are long because they run too many ads. What's worse is that on Sportsnet you can see the same ad 3 or 4 times per games. Compare to soccer where they don't stop the game.

The worse thing in little league baseball is playing a game with no winner.
I don't want to watch a game that ends in a tie.

Is hockey going to be played without fights and with full visors? That sounds like a huge improvement.
Almost too good to be true.

John Northey - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 04:45 PM EDT (#387646) #
If hockey fully bans fights and requires full face masks I'd be happy.  My daughter plays that way as do all women and I enjoy their games a lot.  Having brute force and ego be factors needs to end as much as possible.  Let skill and safety be #1.

For baseball, I'd vote in favor of robo-umps for ball-strike calls and require the home plate ump (and all umps) to keep the 6 foot distance as much as possible.  If the ump is 6 feet back he can still tell if it is a gross error by the machine (ie: ball bounces and goes back into the zone). 

As to playoffs - that horse left the barn back in 1969 (before my time, was born that year) when the ALCS and NLCS were added.  I have seen it as inevitable that we'd get to the 16 team playoff eventually.  Just a matter of time.  In my mind there are two champions - the one for the regular season and one for the playoffs.  We'll never again see a dramatic finish like in 1987 when the Jays and Tigers both had over 95 wins and fought for the title on the final day, or the Jays and Yankees in 1985.  But we also get fun things like the 2 ALDS vs Texas (they had to be getting a complex about the Jays by the end of the 2nd one) and Baltimore not using their closer in 2016.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#387647) #
Baseball being a regional sport doesn't really counter the need for more playoff teams. While expanded playoffs would be done almost entirely to get more national TV money from networks, it might also have some level of impact to regional viewership and fan interest. I read an article recently about MLB's regional TV numbers, and it noted that the 2019 Brewers drew double the regional TV ratings as the 2018-19 Bucks on average, and the Brewers were basically fighting for the Wild Card all season while the Bucks were an NBA Finals contender. It's not about watering down the playoffs, it is about making regular season games mean more for a larger percentage of fan bases. It's not guaranteed to work, some fans might tune out regardless, but it's a step towards potentially fixing a problem.

We are all long time baseball fans. Some longer than others, but I think it is safe to say we are not Gen Z's posting here. That is the generation of fans MLB needs to be concerned about attracting. While these changes (runner on 2nd, extra playoff teams, 3 batter minimums, etc) are not going to get 10-25 year old's running to watch the sport, it's slowly going to evolve the game from a "slow, plodding marathon with a small number of playoff teams" to something that might appeal to a wider range of people. Who other than baseball purists enjoy an 18 inning, 5 hour marathon? Baseball can't live off the old days. Also, if the Jays were contending for a playoff spot in August/September, even if it were Wild Card 3 or 4, it would probably lead to at least a modest increase in fan interest. That's the goal. To have a larger group of fans be more invested in games during the season, rather than knowing by May that their team has no shot and tuning out. When you factor in that the NBA might be going head to head with MLB moving forward, it becomes even more important to increase the value of the 162 game schedule.
scottt - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 05:16 PM EDT (#387648) #
I've read several series of books in which the author takes too long to conclude things and you never get to a satisfying end. A good example is Game of Thrones. I waited 5 years for the 4th book. Then I waited 6 years for the 5th book. It's been 9 years and I'm still waiting for the 6th book. Yeah, I know they made a quick TV series for the unwashed masses, but I'm not interested. I might watch it *after* I've read the last book. I heard it ended miserably.

It's the same with anything. If I invest time in watching a game, I want to see the proper end.
The longer the game, the more I want to see the proper end.
I really, really, want to see that before I watch another game.
That's perfectly normal.

If I'm late cooking supper, we're going to eat late.
I'm not going to throw it away and order fast food instead.

Anything else, is like Trump running the show.

greenfrog - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 08:11 PM EDT (#387649) #
BA’s editorial staff recently guessed who would be MLB’s breakout hitter in 2020. Here are the guesses:

Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
Bo Bichette
Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
Carson Kelly
Lourdes Gurriel Jr.
Gavin Lux
Luis Robert
Eloy Jimenez
John Northey - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 08:32 PM EDT (#387650) #
Greenfrog - love seeing Vlad on it twice. Bo & Gurriel I agree are high odds to have breakouts too. Biggio might surprise if they go to computer umps for ball/strike as he seems to get screwed a lot by the 'human factor' due to his strong knowledge of the zone and umps not giving it to kids on close calls generally.
John Northey - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 08:47 PM EDT (#387651) #
With it looking like it'll be Jays vs AL East and NL East how did the current team do vs those teams specifically?

Ignoring guys with under 30 PA vs those teams by highest OPS to lowest...
Reese McGuire 319/382/536 76 PA
Bo Bichette 296/364/548 129 PA
Rowdy Tellez 267/337/564 193 PA
Teoscar Hernandez 246/328/512 229 PA
Randal Grichuk 251/291/541 296 PA
Cavan Biggio 246/377/436 258 PA
Lourdes Gurriel Jr. 273/318/495 215 PA
Brandon Drury 269/317/462 202 PA
Freddy Galvis 262/300/471 224 PA
Eric Sogard 266/319/431 119 PA
Luke Maile 239/314/413 51 PA
Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 271/317/403 278 PA
Danny Jansen 228/298/409 188 PA
Billy McKinney 179/267/425 120 PA
Justin Smoak 191/329/342 240 PA
Jonathan Davis 211/303/333 67 PA
Derek Fisher 153/254/322 67 PA
Richard Urena 216/245/275 55 PA
Anthony Alford 179/233/286 30 PA

Obviously some of those guys are long gone now, but interesting none-the-less.
3 with 900+ OPS (McGuire, Bichette, Tellez), 4 more in the 800's (Grichuk, Biggio, Gurriel). Vlad just a 720. The 3 in the 500's have 1 who is gone (Urena), 1 who is virtually gone (Alford), and 1 who will probably get lots of time (Fisher).

Tellez could be the surprise of 2020 given these stats. Maybe he just likes playing the AL East teams. 1.370 OPS vs Boston, 1.129 vs Baltimore, but just 496 vs Tampa and 425 vs the Yankees.
scottt - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 08:55 PM EDT (#387652) #
Yeah, it's going to be near impossible for Guerrero to do it twice in a 60 game season.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#387653) #
60 game season is now official as both sides have agreed. Players have to report to ST before July 1st to get tested, and Opening Day will be either July 23 or 24.
greenfrog - Tuesday, June 23 2020 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#387654) #
scottt: eight editors, eight separate guesses (and no rule against agreeing with a colleague)
John Northey - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 12:01 AM EDT (#387655) #
More details are out...
  • 60 games, 40 vs your division, 20 vs another. So 10 vs each team in your division and 4 vs each in the other.
  • Any player or manager who comes within 6 feet of an umpire to argue a call could receive a suspension - guess it is lucky that John Gibbons isn't managing this year :)
  • Most health and safety issues are now covered off.
  • Nothing official (or even strong rumors) on what the Jays will do as there is no way that border should be opened up by the end of July, let along July 1st for 'spring training II'. My gut is Buffalo given Dunedin is a mess at the moment due to Florida being a disaster zone for COVID
Shoeless Joe - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 07:08 AM EDT (#387656) #
Rosters to start at 30 players, so it looks like Alford can get some run.
Thomas - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 08:01 AM EDT (#387657) #
Thanks for the summaries of the key update, John.

One small note is that the border doesn't have to be opened up in order to permit the Jays to play in Toronto. Special exemptions can be created, while keeping the border closed in general. The border could remain closed, while permitting the Jays and their opponents to land at Pearson.

Other sports are considering crossing into Canada. The NHL is considering having one of its hub cities in Canada, and from what I've read it seems likely will have one city in Canada and one in the US.
Cracka - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 08:25 AM EDT (#387658) #
One other neat scheduling quirk for AL/NL East Teams: All 60 games are in the Eastern Time Zone. 10 against BAL/NY/TB/BOS and 20 against NL East teams.

Also, injury lists ("DL") are now either 10 days (down from 15) or 45 days (down from 60).

Teams will be able to bring 3 extra non-roster players on road trips as a "taxi squad" - one must be a catcher.

30 players on the roster for first 2 weeks of season, then 28 players for next 2 weeks, then 26 players for rest of season... increasing to 27 for double-headers. I haven't seen the exact details of the pinch-runner in extra innings, but I would expect most teams to keep a speedster on the bench for this purpose (likely Alford for us).

We still need a place to play though; almost certainly not going to be in Toronto.
Mike Green - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 08:38 AM EDT (#387659) #
What's the current best time for turnaround of COVID-19 testing in North America?  My understanding is that it is many hours.

Needless to say, I would be decidedly unhappy if about 80 people (60 players and coaches/support personnel) flew from Tampa to Toronto this summer without being required to quarantine.  I might even lead the "No MLB in Toronto in 2020" movement.  I don't want public health practices in Florida affecting public health in Toronto.  We have enough problems on our own account.

Incidentally, if the Blue Jays are going to play in New York State (and I don't think that they should be playing anywhere), it makes more sense to see if they can work out arrangements to play in Albany.  That would allow easy (ish!) road travel into NYC and Boston.  I imagine the players would want to take as few flights as possible.  Hell, Tampa could play out of a double or triple A park in the Northeast or at least in the Carolinas (Durham?).  I don't think anyone is going to be wildly enthusiastic about going to Florida this summer.
bpoz - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 08:52 AM EDT (#387660) #
60 players can be invited to ST2. This list is to be submitted by Sunday afternoon. All 60 are eligible to play during the season.

So the usual 40 man roster and the NRIs I guess.
scottt - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 08:56 AM EDT (#387661) #
Sign Martin before Sunday so you can give him an invite.
Let's do it.

85bluejay - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 09:08 AM EDT (#387662) #
I have read reports of very fast covid-19 test getting FDA approval, so I don't think that will be an impediment to playing in Toronto - the season is scheduled to start July 23/24 and I expect the Jays to play in Toronto - there are too many stakeholders who will push for the Jays in Toronto and I think the economic argument (hotels etc.) will win out.
scottt - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 09:12 AM EDT (#387663) #
Normal testing turn around is a few hours.
Health care providers can get their results the same day or early the next day.
It takes longer for the ordinary person because test results are normally communicated to physicians who in turn communicate with their patients.

There are a few devices that can provide results in minutes.
An example is the system Trump has been using.
The problem with those is that they can lead to false positive because the swab often does not reach far enough in the throat or the sinuses.

Now when flying into Toronto, the key is to quarantine for 14 days, which might include playing games if the stadium is considered a quarantine zone. It's not different than farm workers.

So, yes, farm workers have been hit hard, but they haven't infected anyone else.

So, basically, do a test before entering the country. If that's negative come and play a series.
If symptoms develop at any time retest everyone. Retest before leaving the country.
Anybody testing positive needs to go into isolation at a prepared facility.
Replacement players from the taxi-squad are called up if needed.
In the presence of positive cases, test everyone daily.

Overall, that's better than having an NHL hub in Toronto since that would  bring in a lot more people and there are fewer players here and none of those would be allowed to roam.

bpoz - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 09:15 AM EDT (#387664) #
I am probably too excited about the start of baseball so I am guilty of over thinking.

E Luciano may not be on the 60 player list because I cannot see him pitching in a real game. He is too valuable to risk injuring for blowout games.

3 weeks to get the players in game shape physically and mentally. T Hernandez will be on the team as a regular, but he still has to prove to me that he can catch the ball on a regular basis.

scottt - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 09:16 AM EDT (#387665) #
The player on second base is the guy who made the last out.
I'm not sure if you're allowed to replace him. Technically, that just slows the game more and the other team would do the same anyway.

Obviously the rosters will not expend in September.
There is a new list for players who tested positive.
It has no minimum stay period. So, in theory, someone could test positive go on the list for one game, test negative and be back.

James W - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 09:16 AM EDT (#387666) #
I haven't seen the exact details of the pinch-runner in extra innings,

Usually they'll say it's the last out of the previous inning, but it really means that if the 6th batter is leading off the 10th inning, then the 5th batter will start the inning on second base.
scottt - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 09:21 AM EDT (#387667) #
Here's hoping for at least a 30 win season.

I predict Baltimore will set a record with the first 10 win season.

scottt - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 09:24 AM EDT (#387668) #
Players on the 40 roster might have to be on the 60 list.
At any rate, I would expect that they want Luciano to pitch in camp because he needs the development as he's burning an option.

bpoz - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 09:49 AM EDT (#387669) #
Thanks scottt about the info about burning an option. I "thought" with no minor league baseball it may be that no options get burned. Also The 2020 draftees get 4/5 minor league seasons starting in 2021. I am just guessing.
bpoz - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 10:12 AM EDT (#387670) #
2020 will be a really fascinating season. We will learn and relearn things about the virus and testing for it.

1) Some people test positive with no symptoms or mild symptoms and then recover.

2) The best 5 relievers on each team are very important in winning the season. NYY would have the best list of 5 IMO. So losing A Chapman for 5 days (2-3 games) would hurt but not as much as us losing Giles. Every team has this problem. Massive wild card IMO.

3) Catchers being lost to the virus are dangerous. Y Molina for example. I expect many catchers to be available during the regular season. C Joseph has a lot of insurance value.

4) Ties in the final standings.

5) NYY not making the post season will be a PR nightmare for their fans, owners and FO.

6) The Aug 31 trade deadline will help Baltimore rebuild. If they are out of it early.
scottt - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 10:29 AM EDT (#387671) #
I don't really know either, just assuming.
I doubt the union would agree to players on the 40 being set aside without burning an option.
Liriano is a member of the union with a full year of service.

Also, there will be 2 teams of unsigned players paid by the league to be ready to sub in if needed.
I think they'll be playing in Las Vegas.

scottt - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 10:32 AM EDT (#387672) #
How could Baltimore not be out of it early?
Are you predicting NYY is not making the post season?

85bluejay - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 10:53 AM EDT (#387673) #
Martin may be the last draft pick to sign - 1 minute before deadline.
Mike Green - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 10:54 AM EDT (#387674) #
We'll see what the science says in July.  As of now, the fast turn-around tests have a high rate of false negatives. 

Incidentally I don't see the economic argument for playing in Toronto.  There are no fans in the stadium, so it's all about accommodation and food for 60-80 people. For this, you're going to trade all kinds of additional risk for players (more flying) and for the general public. I haven't decided yet whether my hashtag for the opposition will be #NoMLBTO20 or #FOBJ.  The latter does lend itself to a rude version of "OK, Blue Jays".
greenfrog - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 11:07 AM EDT (#387675) #
Austin Martin is #16 on BA’s recently-updated top 100 prospects list.
scottt - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 11:11 AM EDT (#387676) #
Yes, that's what I meant. False negative. Mostly due to mechanical issues.

Room and board might be more expensive in Toronto, but I don't think that matters.
It's a real MLB caliber clubhouse. That's not the same in the minor facilities.
Also, the team has home advantage because they are used to playing in that stadium.
That's gone playing in another park, which might be small.
The RC has all the needed cameras to broadcast the games--that's where the money is.

The Expos played 22 games in Puerto Rico in 2003, I think only the Puerto Ricans appreciated that.

The biggest issue is probably the visas and passports required to play in Toronto.

Cracka - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 11:50 AM EDT (#387677) #
Here's how I look at it re: travel & Toronto:

Each AL-E team comes twice (5 home games total with each). Each NL-E team comes once (2-3 homes games with each). The Blue Jays have ~5 homestands (6 games each). That's 12 "group visits" by other teams and ~5 "group visits" by the local squad.

I have no doubt that we can handle the logistics, but it's the optics & politics that I'm not so sure about. The Canadian border is closed until at least July 21st and potentially longer (especially with current US trends). I just don't see how you can plan on having 17 high-profile groups visiting so close after that date - the chance of disruption of plans seems very high. I think Dunedin would be the preferred choice (best US-based facility owned by the team), but there are obvious benefits of playing in Northern US (COVID, weather, proximity to opponents, etc.)

I don't really see how Toronto would be a preferred option at this point. None of our key on-field employees live here, and any home-field advantages seem small in comparison.
bpoz - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 12:21 PM EDT (#387678) #
I really think the short season and the numerous wild cards involved will play a very big part in who makes the playoffs.

By Aug 31 I expect that 33 or so games will be played. That leaves 27. I have not decided in my mind when the pennant race begins. Sept 1, 2019 had 25 games still to play. So 25 game pennant race. Aug 2019 27 games. Maybe game 31 is the start of the pennant race. I will assume 4 games back means you are in it based on standings on May3/19. Oakland was 4 games out of the 2WC. Washington 5 games out of 2WC. Baltimore after 33 games was 7.5 games back of the 2WC. So out.

Sorry about the cherry picking. Philadelphia went from .581 (31 games) to .500 ball in the finals. I don't want to massage numbers. I will excuse myself (now) for jumping on and off the playoff band wagon due to big winning and losing streaks.
John Northey - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 01:41 PM EDT (#387679) #
I really don't see how the Jays can play in Toronto. Politically it would look terrible for whoever signed off on it, the gains for the city and players is minimal. Remember, Buffalo's park was built about the same time as the SkyDome and was set up to be a major league park (they thought they'd get an expansion team or convince someone to move - it was designed to quickly expand to over 30k seats). I suspect the park is better set up than Fenway for exmaple (over 100 years old) or Tampa's mess (built at roughly the same time but is an 'oh god no' park).

I see it as Buffalo or Dunedin for the Jays this season. Given the nightmare Florida is I'd hope for Buffalo. Any money spent upgrading it would help lock them in even more as a Jays affiliate I'd think as an added bonus.
Shoeless Joe - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 02:24 PM EDT (#387680) #
Austin Martin was given grades of Hit: 70, Power: 55, Run: 55, Fielding 55, Arm 45. The other prospects with a 70 hit tool are Jared Kelenic, Julio Rodriguez, Adley Rutschmen and Wander France with an 80 grade.

The grades are similar to Bo Bichette who they gave grades of Hit: 70, Power: 60, Speed: 50, Fielding 50, Arm: 55.
scottt - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 02:37 PM EDT (#387681) #
I'm not really clear on what happens with the reserve players.
To me, it doesn't make sense to keep them at the same facility as the active players.
Also, maybe they need to have an alternate facility ready. I'm not sure you can disinfect a facility overnight.

Glevin - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 02:43 PM EDT (#387682) #
I expect the taxi squad to mostly not be players who can help the team but rather top prospects who could use playing time. It would be more important to say get Groshans ABs than it would be to have a 7th catcher.
Chuck - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 02:54 PM EDT (#387683) #
I see it as Buffalo or Dunedin for the Jays this season.

The state of NY just announced isolation requirements for everyone coming into their state. Don't know if baseball-playing bubble boys will get a pass. Moops!

Chuck - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 02:58 PM EDT (#387684) #
The Canadian border is closed until at least July 21st and potentially longer (especially with current US trends).

The parenthetical comment is worth noting. The EU is talking about preventing Americans from entering. Not sure, though, if they intend to build a wall and have the US pay for it.

scottt - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#387685) #
The EU, like always, is a little confused. They don't want anybody who has worse propagation rates.
But they also want reciprocity--they don't want to let in anyone from a country that does not let them in--so basically they don't want anyone who has better propagation rates, either.

Paul D - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 03:36 PM EDT (#387686) #
Shi Davidi now reporting that multiple Blue Jays players and personnel have tested positive for COVID.
Mike Green - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 03:59 PM EDT (#387687) #
Shi Davidi also reports that Mark Shapiro has been added to Canada's national lobbyist registry, presumably to lobby on immigration/quarantine rules.
AWeb - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 03:59 PM EDT (#387688) #
With multiple players and coaches on multiple teams already testing positive, how bad it can be for those that get it (including death but often lung damage, 60% of the time according to a recent study ouy of China), this season is going to be ridiculous. If it happens. Would a smart team send their best players away and not risk them? The u.s. is just #$%^ed at this point. The Jays should be trying to hide out in Canada and just stay healthy hoping for a vaccine. Too bad none of the players are here and relatively safe...
Mike Green - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 04:23 PM EDT (#387689) #
If Shapiro were lobbying to bring the Jays and top prospects back to Vancouver and quarantine them properly, and not play the season, I'd support that.  The top prospects could work on development one-on-one with coaches.  If BC is able to totally quash the virus, you might even be able to get in a few intra-squad games safely in the future and televise those. 

Somehow I think that the chances of this happening are precisely nil.

Chuck - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#387690) #
Somehow I think that the chances of this happening are precisely nil.

Great, now there's a tear in the space/time continuum, as glass half full and glass half empty find themselves in agreement.

John Northey - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 04:41 PM EDT (#387691) #
Chuck - crap. Figures states would start putting up barriers. Of course, it'll be interesting to see what NY does about the Yankees and Mets. MLB would be smartest, if they must play, to play in a bubble - pick an area and lock it down totally. A 5+ diamond area ideally so you can play all the games at one facility. Each day you need 15 games, so 5 fields would mean 3 time slots - 1 PM, 4 PM, 7 PM with a 10 inning rule (tied after 10). Or 12 PM, 4 PM, 8 PM to give a bigger window for games (4 hours). Would make a ton more sense than flying all over the place. Could split it into 3 locations for each group too. Then just 5 games a day needed so 2 diamonds would do the trick. Could use NY for the east coast, Chicago for central, LA for west (2+ ML parks in each city/region).
scottt - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 07:38 PM EDT (#387692) #
Yeah, but with several Blue Jays players and coaches having recently tested positive.
Mike Green - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 08:16 PM EDT (#387693) #
Well, Chuck. I do think the virus will have essentially run its course likely within a year and almost certainly within 3 and a half. The climate emergency will by then be really getting rolling though. Have you seen the weather data for Russia this year? Russia joined the Paris agreement quietly in the fall and Putin has described the situation as serious this year. Baseball in Thunder Bay has never seemed so realistic.

My glass may be half full, but of what exactly?

Chuck - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 09:37 PM EDT (#387694) #
My glass may be half full, but of what exactly?

Water from melted polar ice caps, presumably.

Back in the early days of "all this" when deference was shown to the experts, some dared think that science was winning the day and gaining traction in society. Post-virus, it was felt, perhaps headier matters, like climate change, could be treated more seriously. Ah, such was the world back in March and April that people could dare to dream. Different times.

We all see how stock in expertise has since dropped, how the opinions of laypeople seem to now carry as much weight. And oh me oh my, should an expert dare change their opinion this is not a sign that science is indeed working, but rather one that science doesn't have all the answers, something it obviously never purported to.

This virus is proving inconvenient for many people and sapiens is coping as sapiens does, by opting for willful self-denial. One fears that climate issues will likely be greeted with that same approach. Republicans will be fiddling while Gaia burns.

Chuck - Wednesday, June 24 2020 @ 09:59 PM EDT (#387695) #
I hate following my own post with a post. But there you go. Scratch self-denial. Make it denial. Need an editor, if not an edit function.
scottt - Thursday, June 25 2020 @ 08:38 AM EDT (#387696) #
We don't know how long immunity last.
Having recovered, I'm banking on at least 6 months. A year seems reasonable.
But 3 years? There's no way to know. As the number of infected people grow, the mutability increases.
There's even questions that a potential vaccine would not be suitable for at-risk people.
And since elderly folks tend to congregate together, it seems like we could keep be having those retirement home outbreaks.

It seems like some owners will allow spectators in the stadium. At some point anyway.
When you think about the tiny fines that the league imposed on the Astros, it seems grossly unfair if MLB leaves it to the state/province rules. Each billionaire owner would no doubt make pressure to enable the largest attendance possible.

85bluejay - Thursday, June 25 2020 @ 10:39 AM EDT (#387697) #
Like I've said before, I'm for no professional sports this season but if the leagues play, then I think the Jays will play in Toronto as it's safer than Florida/New York and with Toronto apparently making a pitch to be an NHL hub city, then the Jays playing here I think is likely - In Toronto, economics/big business interest almost always wins out.
scottt - Thursday, June 25 2020 @ 12:09 PM EDT (#387698) #
For the Hockey hub, Edmonton would probably be a lot less expensive.
I don't see the benefits for the league in Toronto.
The US Hub will likely be Vegas.

I'm curious on how they will enforce the mandatory isolation.
In New Zealand, it's now the army that does that.

On the MLB side, the visiting teams will remain in quarantine but they will have also keep the home players in continual quarantine.
I wonder about the umpires. Ideally they wouldn't travel, but getting stuck with a bad ump team would be terrible.
I believe there's an automatic suspension for approaching the umps.

John Northey - Thursday, June 25 2020 @ 02:48 PM EDT (#387699) #
For the Jays if they play at home - obviously everyone stays at the hotel built into the stadium, heck, Alomar lived there for more than one season. So that part of the isolation works, I guess they could fly into the island airport and then be taken from there straight to the park with minimal interaction with others thus a near quarantine zone situation. Could use a couple of taxi-vans to take them from the island to/from the park. Still seems to be silly imo - why the league doesn't just do hub cities for baseball is beyond me - no air travel beyond getting there, minimal travel in city. Ah well.
Mike Green - Thursday, June 25 2020 @ 04:09 PM EDT (#387700) #
Under the safety protocols, players and coaches are being tested every other day with temperature checks every day.  It's obviously not adequate to prevent spread because of the prevalence of asymptomatic transmission.
scottt - Thursday, June 25 2020 @ 05:11 PM EDT (#387701) #
It's very simple. Many owners want to put butts in the seats.
They can do it if the rules are lax in their states.

John Northey - Thursday, June 25 2020 @ 11:31 PM EDT (#387702) #
Wonder who the Jays will add to their 60 man roster? You have the usual 40 man, the NRI had 24 on it including 12 pitchers, 4 catchers, 5 infielders, and 3 outfielders. With no minor league season there is no need to hold anyone back since they all can't play anywhere anyways. I'm assuming the extra 20 won't use up options by being part of it unless called up to the big team (IE: once season is over 20 guys are cut from the 60 man roster no matter what, if they never came up to the bigs it seems wrong to require an option to be used).

Current 40 man has 24 pitchers, 2 catchers, 8 infielders, and 7 outfielders. (41 due to Yennsy Diaz being on the 60 day DL)
AWeb - Friday, June 26 2020 @ 07:59 AM EDT (#387703) #
Assuming they want to play, I would think a 60 man roster would be filled out with a lot of marginal vets and marginal prospects. Teams will still not want to call up top prospects if they can help it. I don't know if there are enough of these guys to fill out a 60 man roster for every team though. That's a lot.

Has anyone seen how rookie status will be defined? Can a player end up playing more than half a "season" and still be a rookie the next year?
scottt - Friday, June 26 2020 @ 08:28 AM EDT (#387704) #
I'm not sure about the top prospects. As long as they are on the 40 roster, they're already burning an option year and not getting playing time.

Vancouver is out of the NHL hub contest because they didn't not want to relax any rules.

It seems the Jays have moved from Dunedin and are now considering Buffalo, but the stadium there has not been prepped yet. I'm not sure what that means.

Paul D - Friday, June 26 2020 @ 09:14 AM EDT (#387705) #
According to the Score, the Jays have asked the Canadian government for permission to play in Toronto.
Glevin - Friday, June 26 2020 @ 10:57 AM EDT (#387706) #
"Assuming they want to play, I would think a 60 man roster would be filled out with a lot of marginal vets and marginal prospects. Teams will still not want to call up top prospects if they can help it. I don't know if there are enough of these guys to fill out a 60 man roster for every team though. That's a lot."

The 60 man taxi spot is not the 40 man roster. Teams are using the extra spots (smartly) to give time to their top prospects. It's extremely important that say Groshans, Moreno, and SWR get to develop. It's already an open secret that all teams are doing this. Mariners are going to have Kelenic and even Emerson Hancock on their taxi squads. Giants will have Bart, Luciano, etc...I expect all the Jays top-10-15 prospects to be on the taxi squad.
Dave Till - Friday, June 26 2020 @ 11:42 AM EDT (#387707) #
I feel sad saying this, but I do not want the Blue Jays in Toronto right now. The Dunedin/Clearwater area is a known COVID-19 hot spot, and several Blue Jays players and staffers already have the disease.

Given that athletes are what they are (with some exceptions), I don't expect that they would respect physical distancing and other measures that have kept COVID-19 relatively under control in Canada. I love baseball more than almost anything in the world, but I do not love it more than my life and health or that of others.

Have them play in Buffalo, or not at all if absolutely necessary, but keep us safe. (It's not as if we will be attending games at Rogers Centre anyway, so it's no big loss not having the Jays here.)
scottt - Friday, June 26 2020 @ 11:45 AM EDT (#387708) #
Yeah, that was mentioned above. They are expecting an answer by tomorrow at the latest.
However, the Chief Medical Officer (of Ontario) has said that they haven't received any info from MLB.

So, if they're asking for waivers to travel and not isolate, it's probably going to be no.

Cracka - Friday, June 26 2020 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#387709) #
Federal, provincial, and local governments will all want to review the plan. Any approval will require a leap-of-faith that the plan will actually work. For example, I find it hard to believe that 100% of players/personnel would quarantine 100% of the time, even if that's the "rule". What happens when prominent players (Blue Jays or opposition) don't obey the rules? Would we be prepared to kick them out of the country? Shut down all baseball activities?

I'm also guessing that the 9 teams scheduled to visit Toronto this year would prefer not to, especially if there are strict regulations in place for their personnel.

This seems like a pretty easy decision at this point.

Mike Green - Friday, June 26 2020 @ 03:07 PM EDT (#387710) #
8,900 new cases in Florida today. Who would want voluntarily to travel to and from there?
85bluejay - Friday, June 26 2020 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#387711) #
Regardless of merit, I expect both hockey and the Jays to be approved to play in Toronto.
bpoz - Friday, June 26 2020 @ 06:05 PM EDT (#387712) #
I am looking forward to hearing Atkins speak about the goals for the 2020 season.

Personally I hope we can win the WS because I think we can get lucky. Tanking and receiving a high draft pick is also acceptable but painful. If healthy Bo and the other position players and pitchers need the 60 games for development. So both bookends??

Please no S Brito experiments.

Shoeless Joe - Friday, June 26 2020 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#387713) #
I simply don’t think there will be a season.
scottt - Friday, June 26 2020 @ 09:58 PM EDT (#387714) #
Apparently, Shapiro explained that they never fully considered Buffalo. It sounds like it's been shut down since last year and the field might not be usable.

They considered the Trop but decided against spending money to add another set of locker rooms.

So now, it seems it's either Toronto, Dunedin or a mixture of both.


cascando - Friday, June 26 2020 @ 10:13 PM EDT (#387715) #
I agree that a season is unlikely

If it happens, please let’s keep it out of Canada. As absurd as it seems, the handling of the situation in the US means that a regular influx of 50-100 people to play baseball games I’m Toronto could very well result in another wave of infections in Canada. Hoping our leaders say no to MLB.
scottt - Saturday, June 27 2020 @ 09:51 AM EDT (#387716) #
It's easy to handle players who voluntary disobey the rules. There is a  restricted list where you put players who are suspended without pay and service time.

You just need security with camera who monitor everyone who leave without permission.
Should be pretty easy if there is nobody else at that hotel.
Other teams are not really an issue because I presume that the players will travel without their family.

It's the family of the home players who poses the most problems.
It's less an issue once they've been here 14 days.

Players are not likely to require hospitalization, but the coaches are.

John Northey - Saturday, June 27 2020 @ 11:27 AM EDT (#387717) #
Via MLB Trade Rumors (as always)....
  • The players on the 40 man roster don't need to be included on the 60 man taxi squad.
  • Likewise, players on the 60 man don't lose an option or anything else that guys on the 40 would unless they are officially called up to play in a ML game. Thus the Jays could have Pearson on it without starting his clock or burning an option this year unless/until they put him into a game.
  • Active roster for any game must have 25 players and can have as many as 30 for the first 2 weeks, then a max of 28 for 2 more weeks before dropping to 26. A 27th can be added for double headers.
  • when on the road teams have a 3 man undisclosed taxi-squad traveling with them (at least one must be a catcher)
  • Basically once on a 60 man you are there for the year unless traded/released/long term injured
  • trade deadline is August 31st. Only players on the 60 man may be traded - this will affect who is on that 60 man.
grjas - Saturday, June 27 2020 @ 05:37 PM EDT (#387718) #
Hoping our leaders say no to MLB.

Absolutely. The optics are bad and the security is a pain. It will only open the floodgates to other groups wanting to cross.

America has done the worst job in the Western world of keeping the beast under control. While government lunacy is partly to blame, much of the problem lies on the shoulders of individual Americans. I don’t expect them to behave any better up here.

(And yes I know many Americans are acting responsibly, but a sizeable number are not, especially younger ones. Let’s not undo what we’ve worked so hard to achieve.)
John Northey - Saturday, June 27 2020 @ 07:29 PM EDT (#387719) #
grjas I agree 100%. The only exception to the border being closed should be for transportation of goods (we do need food and stuff) and other things we cannot do without. Sports is not one of those things. The Jays can play in Buffalo all season with no problem and be close to home and far from the scary place that Florida currently is. Ideally the Rays and Marlins would play elsewhere as well. Lots of AAA parks out there in safer places.
grjas - Saturday, June 27 2020 @ 08:11 PM EDT (#387720) #
Well said John.
christaylor - Saturday, June 27 2020 @ 09:46 PM EDT (#387721) #
I don't really care where the Blue Jays play. I just want them to play. Not just because I'm a baseball fan, but when best practices are followed, they work. I was at BLM protests in MA two weeks ago, all were wearing masks and we've seen no increase in cases. Ballplayers will be much more strictly monitored than protesters were.

The Rogers Centre is uniquely set-up (in a good way) to both provide housing and play the games. For the player's and staff's safety, the bad choice would be FL. Failing that, the Jays could play on the road each and every game this season.

Lastly, I'll end with this, if the government gives the OK to have Toronto as an NHL and doesn't OK the Blue Jays, well, that'll be might stupid. That's much more of a risk than giving the Jays and the other teams the bubble of Rogers Centre.
John Northey - Sunday, June 28 2020 @ 12:39 AM EDT (#387722) #
More interesting is who will be on the initial 60 man roster? I figure it'll be pretty full to start but some will be removed depending on rules.
The active roster had: 13 pitchers, 2 catchers, 7 infielders, 7 outfielders. Safe to say more pitchers will be added and at least 1 or 2 catchers.
  • Pitchers: Chase Anderson, Anthony Bass, Ryan Borucki, Rafael Dolis, Wilmer Font, Sam Gaviglio, Ken Giles, Tanner Roark, Jordan Romano, Hyun-Jin Ryu, Matt Shoemaker, Trent Thornton, Shun Yamaguchi
  • CA: Danny Jansen, Reese McGuire
  • IF: Bo Bichette, Cavan Biggio, Brandon Drury, Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Joe Panik, Travis Shaw, Rowdy Tellez
  • OF: Anthony Alford, Jonathan Davis, Derek Fisher, Randal Grichuk, Lourdes Gurriel Jr., Teoscar Hernández, Billy McKinney

Top prospects I figure will be mixed in for experience but unlikely to get a chance. Guys like the new draft picks, Pearson, Jordan Groshans, Simeon Woods Richardson, etc. although some might be in a separate Jays mini-camp somewhere. Guys with low numbers who were invited to spring were probably thought highly of (if you get a # in the 70's you probably were just filler) thus Caleb Joseph (who has some ML experience) will be catcher #3, while pitchers like Phillippe Aumont, A.J. Cole, Ryan Dull, Justin Miller, Brian Moran, Jake Petricka, and Marc Rzepczynski will all get a good chance I figure. Infielder Rubén Tejada (SS/2B/3B 641 OPS lifetime) will probably be on the roster too.
It'll be fun to see who is and isn't on it. As I read it once off it is hard to get onto a 60 man. Trades can only involve players on the 60 man which will affect it too.
bpoz - Sunday, June 28 2020 @ 08:32 AM EDT (#387723) #
When the 60 man list is revealed after 4 pm today some things may become clear.

A few people have suggested that prospects that were going to be assigned to A ball would be added so that they can further develop. They are not seriously expected to play in the Majors in 2020. Groshans and Manoah for example.

The top AA prospects like A Kirk, L Warmoth, K Smith and possibly SWR could make the leap to the Majors in 2020. They too need development time.

E Luciano & H Perez on the 60 list would be there for development. I don't expect much from them.

Some NRIs have value with C Joseph potentially being crucial insurance.

ISLAND BOY - Sunday, June 28 2020 @ 12:46 PM EDT (#387724) #
If I was a minor league player with any MLB team and didn't make the 60 man taxi squad, I think I would consider another line of work or it would give me serious incentive to prove them wrong.
Shoeless Joe - Sunday, June 28 2020 @ 01:17 PM EDT (#387725) #
I think a few prospect names for the 60 man include Jackson Rees, Joey Murray, Curtis Taylor and Forrest Wall.
John Northey - Sunday, June 28 2020 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#387726) #
PeterG - Sunday, June 28 2020 @ 04:37 PM EDT (#387727) #
Jays will train and play in Toronto....players to report Wednesday.
Gerry - Sunday, June 28 2020 @ 05:21 PM EDT (#387728) #
Very few prospects on the Jays list, Groshans, Kirk and SWR look like the only ones from below the 2019 AA roster.
Gerry - Sunday, June 28 2020 @ 05:22 PM EDT (#387729) #
Plus Manoah too.
eldarion - Sunday, June 28 2020 @ 06:06 PM EDT (#387730) #
Riley Adams, Santiago Espinal and Kevin Smith too.
eldarion - Sunday, June 28 2020 @ 06:08 PM EDT (#387731) #
Sorry - those guys are at AA/AAA. Still, they could be useful this season. I'm curious about Adams in particular.
Thomas - Sunday, June 28 2020 @ 06:27 PM EDT (#387732) #
Aumont, Dull and Rzepczynski were among the bubble pitchers who didn't make the cut.

Does anyone know the benefit to naming 58 players, instead of using up all 60 slots?
Shoeless Joe - Sunday, June 28 2020 @ 06:59 PM EDT (#387733) #
15 of the top 30 Jays prospects according to MLB Pipeline are now on the Jays 60 players pool. If the season goes ahead we should see a lot of looks at young pitching.
PeterG - Sunday, June 28 2020 @ 06:59 PM EDT (#387734) #
One benefit is that Austin Martin can be added when signed. They could also sign a FA.
BlueMonday - Sunday, June 28 2020 @ 07:17 PM EDT (#387735) #
Does anyone know the benefit to naming 58 players, instead of using up all 60 slots?

I think it's that if you have 60 on your list, and drop someone to add a FA or Martin, then the dropped player has to clear waivers.
bpoz - Monday, June 29 2020 @ 06:55 AM EDT (#387740) #
Y Diaz should be added when he is healthy enough to come off the 60 day DL. Someone on the 40 man would have to be moved. Probably DL'd.
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